Ever wonder how a wine hobby could transform into a thriving business? My conversation with Clayton Steffen uncovers his intriguing journey into the wine world, the joy he finds in introducing others to new varieties, and the challenges he faces in this industry. We also walk you through our collective journey of tasting a variety of exquisite wines at a recent industry event.
We then transition into the heart and soul of running a wine bar. Clayton's insights paint a vivid picture of the importance of creating a 'third place' - a safe, welcoming environment where community thrives and friendships bloom. Seamlessly blending wine with faith and community, our discussion travels to Montalcino in Tuscany, unraveling hidden gems in the world of wine. It's not just about the taste, but also the experience that comes with every sip.
Finally, we explore the excitement and challenges of planning wine tastings and the thrill that comes with introducing new varietals to wine lovers. Clayton gears up to explore the Columbia Valley in Washington next, eager to share his new experiences with his patrons. Whether you're a casual drinker or a connoisseur, join us in this riveting discussion, sip by sip, uncorking the passion, and dedication it takes to make it in the wine industry.
See audio and video episodes at: https://communionwineco.com/podcast/
Find out more at: https://linktr.ee/communionwineco
Ever wonder how a wine hobby could transform into a thriving business? My conversation with Clayton Steffen uncovers his intriguing journey into the wine world, the joy he finds in introducing others to new varieties, and the challenges he faces in this industry. We also walk you through our collective journey of tasting a variety of exquisite wines at a recent industry event.
We then transition into the heart and soul of running a wine bar. Clayton's insights paint a vivid picture of the importance of creating a 'third place' - a safe, welcoming environment where community thrives and friendships bloom. Seamlessly blending wine with faith and community, our discussion travels to Montalcino in Tuscany, unraveling hidden gems in the world of wine. It's not just about the taste, but also the experience that comes with every sip.
Finally, we explore the excitement and challenges of planning wine tastings and the thrill that comes with introducing new varietals to wine lovers. Clayton gears up to explore the Columbia Valley in Washington next, eager to share his new experiences with his patrons. Whether you're a casual drinker or a connoisseur, join us in this riveting discussion, sip by sip, uncorking the passion, and dedication it takes to make it in the wine industry.
See audio and video episodes at: https://communionwineco.com/podcast/
Find out more at: https://linktr.ee/communionwineco
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Cabernet and Prey. I love doing this. I love hosting a podcast where I get to talk to amazing people and drink wine at the same time, and today I'm excited for you to meet a close friend of mine. Today's episode is with Clayton Stefan. He has been in the wine industry for over a decade. He owns the divided wine, one of the best beer and wine bars in the Phoenix East Valley, and he's committed his life to learning as much as he can about wine. Clayton, my man, welcome to the podcast. Salud, happy to be here. Anything else we need to know about you that I didn't cover in those little bullet points there?
Speaker 2:I mean, I have a lot of other hobbies, but for the most part these days it's very focused around wine.
Speaker 1:Any hobbies you want to share with us?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I love playing guitar. I like doing carpentry all the tables here at the bar I actually built myself. So that's the hobby for part and wine's the work, but I love the work.
Speaker 1:The tough job that someone's got to do it Exactly OK. That sound means it's time to talk about what we're drinking. Today. I am drinking a 2022. Let's get this in the shot for those on video 2022, Palisade Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand and I am a sucker for New Zealand Sauvignon Blancs. I can enjoy it from elsewhere in the world, but the acidity the mouth feel from a good New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc just blows me away. It's like a whole experience in your mouth if you've had one of these and you know what I'm talking about. On this one, I'm getting pineapple lemon and then the herbaceous notes are just super fun. I'm getting green bell pepper and cut green grass and I realized that for some of you, that might be like super weird to having a wine, but if you haven't tried it, Sauvignon Blanc is one of my probably top two go to white wines. I absolutely love it Super refreshing. So, Clay, that's what I'm drinking. What are you drinking today?
Speaker 2:I am drinking Alto Lamez Patagonia Pinot Noir from Argentina. Let me get that better. Too much glare. It's not a purely white label there. It is there Now you can read it, but it is absolutely fantastic 2018, so it's had some time to integrate. It is just screaming right now. It is beautiful black cherries. A lot of the terroir is coming through. Patagonia is actually farther south in Argentina, so when you go Southern Hemisphere, you flip it. We think cold, we go north, they go the opposite way. So Pinot Noir needs a colder region. So in Argentina, you start heading south, heading towards Antarctica, and then that's where you can grow Chardonnay Pinot Noir. A lot of the brunels are going to sparkling wine and this Pinot is just amazing. Also, we'll be serving this during the Communion Wine event coming up on the 18th, so you get to taste it too, if you want to come to that. But you should.
Speaker 2:Hi I love it All right.
Speaker 1:Now, clayton, you and I had the chance to go to an industry event last week for wine buyers and there were 115 different vendors that I counted at this event. It may have been one of the best days of my life, but here's my question Was that just business as usual for you, or were you having a little bit of experience that I was?
Speaker 2:That one's a little overwhelming. That is basically all of their vendors at once, and unless you were Superman, you're not getting through all of them. It'd be literally impossible.
Speaker 1:We did try. We didn't put a real big dent in it.
Speaker 2:We did our best. I think we got through about 25% of them. At that point you got to pick and choose. It's a little overwhelming every time you go into one of those, whether or not you've been doing it a while, but we did it right, which is you just walk in, pick a table Doesn't matter which one, get your first one under your belt and then you can relax and then you can kind of game plan and go through it. So you saw me the whole time. I'm taking notes, I'm tasting, trying to taste mostly things that are good for us. So on that, wasting time doing it, but at the same time, you and I definitely ventured into some things that I would not normally be bringing in here. So have some fun with it as well.
Speaker 1:We did taste some incredible wine, and the joke that Clay and I had going was after a certain point, and again you're tasting and spitting most of the wines, just the sheer volume of what you're trying to taste. But even with that you get to a point where you just kind of get desensitized to oh yeah, this is good, and this is good, and this is good. And it's just wine after wine, after wine, and at one point I was losing track of which wine are we on what price point? I don't even know. We were going table to table and I leaned over to him and I was like this one's not bad, I would totally drink this. And then I literally looked it up and it's like a $50 wholesale price bottle which is like an incredible bottle of wine. And here I am thinking, oh yeah, I would drink that. And it was just funny to me of like, oh, you can get used to really good wine over and over and over.
Speaker 2:Steakhouse. It's like 200 minimum right for that bottle of wine. But that's the thing. The value is not there because you're trying everything for free, so you don't.
Speaker 1:You're like yeah, it's another good one Right.
Speaker 2:You paid $2.
Speaker 1:$3.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Well, that was a highlight for me, so I enjoyed that. Clayton, when did you get interested in wine? When is this journey for you begin?
Speaker 2:So I was 26, 25, somewhere around there, but I was a beer buyer and then the wine buyer actually left the company and they just said you buy wine now I really didn't know a lot about wine, I'd been serving it but I was like I had an idea, but I hadn't fallen in love yet. Once I started the buying process and getting anecdotes and finding out all the stories, everything that goes along with wine, from all the sales reps, I was just like this is so cool and there's so much here. It's a scratch and stiff that never loses its flavor.
Speaker 1:So you kind of got thrown into the fire and then you decided you could do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess it wasn't necessarily by choice. Never really thought about that, but yeah.
Speaker 1:You're choosing it now, but yeah, you kind of got launched into it.
Speaker 2:It was an arranged marriage that worked out.
Speaker 1:I like that. Now, when you look back on your journey, did you have anyone like a mentor or a coach that really stood out, that helped you into this world? Because you and I have joked, we talk a lot. The wine world is daunting. I mean just, you can spend your life on this and you're going to scratch the surface. Who was maybe a person or two for you that helped you?
Speaker 2:Definitely it was all the sales reps I've had and I've tried to be a nice buyer. There's a lot of.
Speaker 2:A-holes out there and they believe that you should be doing everything for me and I try to be a nice buyer. Welcome everyone in. It's the first time I'll buy something for you, for sure, but I need them as much as they need me. We're almost coworkers in that sense, where they're part of the business at the same time, so I relied on them a lot in the beginning, especially when I didn't know anything. And even you get farther into it and then, once you get maybe closer to their level, then you're talking more as equals and that becomes really cool. I didn't have anyone outside of that, necessarily. I had a few mentors, maybe business-wise, but no one that really was holding my hand with wine.
Speaker 1:So you just picked it up on the job from the people in the trenches, if you will.
Speaker 2:The joke I always say is how'd you learn so much? And I'm like you got to drink a lot.
Speaker 1:That is the thing. I went back and started getting some of my wine certifications, because all of my formal training has been on the ministry side and theology side, and you would be learning about these wines and I'm like I've never had it and so it's like those are just words on a page until you've experienced it. And wine is one of those things where it's like you got to experience it and so, yeah, for me I love. A lot of times I'll get a wine that I'm like this isn't for me, but I'm really stoked to try it and add that experience to my memory bank of that's what that wine is like, even if it's not a wine I'm going to buy regularly. And you are the king of this. I watched you try. I don't even know how many wines you think you've tried in your life.
Speaker 2:I tried to figure that out. Probably somewhere between 10 and 15, maybe 16, 17,000 lines.
Speaker 1:And what's crazy, you have these giant binders that you keep detailed tasting notes and it's just, it's wild. You know, I think that's the part maybe people don't understand about the industry is you're drinking wine, but this is, this has also worked, you know, and you're keeping detailed notes and that's just. That's funny Because you've tried so many. I'm really curious your answer to this. What's an underrated wine that people listening or watching this should go check out, that they may be unaware of?
Speaker 2:Oh, portuguese wine for sure, just because of its big brothers over there in Europe. You know you got Spain, italy, france and they get tons of attention. Portugal they get attention for port but not for their regular still wines, and there's so much value there. They're making fantastic fine wines that are 15 bucks, you know, in the store 10 bucks sometimes and there's just an incredible amount of value there, just because they go and notice. Kind of the same thing with Chile. I love Chilean wine, their big brother, argentina, right next door. So much fame for Malbec and Chile goes unnoticed. At the same time You're getting fantastic wines and those are just screaming deals.
Speaker 1:So anything in particular from Portugal or oh, I love Vino Verde.
Speaker 2:I mean, I love white wine, love Rose. I drink a lot of red too, obviously, but Vino Verde. So that's here at the top of Portugal. It's actually a region called Vino Verde, which just translates to green wine. But it's basically a youthful wine. It comes a little frizzante, so you have like it's almost semi sparkling but very bubbly on the tongue. It's perfect for Arizona weather too, because you're bright, you're fresh. I'll just a touch of sparkling alcohols in the mid, you know. So 11s up to 12 maybe. It's just an awesome wine. Any Vino Verde. I've never had a bad Vino Verde. They're very passionate about it. It's what they do in that region.
Speaker 1:All right, I see. I mean I want one now. I don't know if I ever have that, so there we go. What's the best part about owning a wine bar?
Speaker 2:Oh, the aha moments for sure. So giving someone a wine, or they say I don't like wine, or I don't like reds, or I don't like rosé's or I don't like whites, and I always say I can get you, I know I can, and you give them that thing. And then it's the aha moment and you see it on their face they're happy, they've discovered something new. It's basically it's a new door opening up to an entire new room they've never explored before, and though those are really special.
Speaker 1:What really is, in essence, the job of a Somalia is you're the bridge right between what that person knows or likes to an incredible wine experience, and you know you, in the front lines of the wine bar, get to get to guide people through that experience all the time.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's fun.
Speaker 1:What's the most challenging part of owning a wine bar?
Speaker 2:Well, alcohol is poison, so you know there is that part to it and it's not. Everyone behaves themselves and that's that's definitely the worst part, especially if they've been irregular or something and you have to. But that's few and far between here, so we're lucky that that hasn't happened very often, but when it does, it's unfortunate. So you know. Any wild theories you want to share. Not that I want to share. I know I don't want anything on on video.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, fair enough. So again, I know people might have this idea of how it would be so, so sexy to open a wine bar. What's the most unglamorous part about running a wine bar?
Speaker 2:Oh man, plumbing issues probably.
Speaker 1:You're showing, you're showing me some of those oh yeah, grease trap issue.
Speaker 2:Grease trap is just something on the floor that collects grease when you run food through it. Right, we're having issues. You have to open it up and it's just, it's so disgusting, it's, it's the epitome of unglamorous. It's all, it's all part of it. That, and cleaning out floor sinks. So most bars have floor sinks where water drains into and just if you got beer and you got wine going down there, it coagulates and turns into what I call jellyfish. Oh yeah, you're expecting a burn for it. Yeah, it's not not fun.
Speaker 1:Well, couldn't you just say cleaning? That's one of the answers we've gotten previously to this question. There's so much cleaning involved in the industry and people don't see that part right.
Speaker 2:For sure, right, that's not meant to see it. It happens before and after they leave. Right, yeah, I can definitely. You could chalk it up to cleaning absolutely.
Speaker 1:Now many churches and coffee shops are trying to create what has become known as the third place for people, this idea of another place where you go and you feel safe and you go and gather. What have you learned about community in running a wine bar?
Speaker 2:Oh, how it, how it can come together without even, or how it can evolve without even realizing what's happening around you until after, after the fact. So many friendships have started here, not just between us and the customers, but between the customers themselves, that they're becoming what is, you can tell, is going to be lifelong friends. And this is the gathering place, this is the safe place. Also, a lot of women bring dates here because they feel safe here. We love that Like that's. That's what it's supposed to be At its essence is a gathering place for the community to come talk, enjoy themselves. That's what bars have been since their inception, is that third place, and that's what they should be at their core, you know if you had a drill down, what are the elements that you see that make that possible and in your bar, a welcoming environment so and openness.
Speaker 2:So we're not, we're not putting up barriers. You know it's an open flow and, in that sense, what we've noticed is that it starts to regulate itself, where we don't even have to be the people who are saying, hey, you're, you're acting. This is not how we should act. You know, the actual customers and the community, the community itself, self regulates and they actually they're like. This person feels ostracized because they're making other people feel uncomfortable. They're not going to come back. It takes care of itself in that sense, and that that part has been super cool to watch, interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's a lot of churches that would love to figure that out. How do we get the community to regulate itself? That's great. Yeah, One of the reasons you and I have become such good friends is you were the one that said yes to this crazy idea of hosting events. We host a lot of our community events at Clayton's Bar. Clayton and I have even hosted events in Tucson. We've taken it on the road. I've shared this, but not on the podcast yet. One of the things that was funny to me is when we started this journey of community wine co. We were like all right, we have this idea. We want to blend these two worlds together, these spiritual conversations that are safe, but also we're going to have them in non-church environments. What we realized is that idea was equally suspect on both sides of the line.
Speaker 1:To church people. Any mention of alcohol or wine was like well then, it's not safe and it's not okay. I don't think you should be having spiritual conversations in that way To a lot of the church environments.
Speaker 1:they were very hesitant. What surprised me was that a lot of the bar environments were equally suspect because they didn't want nothing to do with Jesus or church or what they had experienced with Christianity To them. They're looking at us like, no, we don't really want that happening in our space. When I was beginning to reach out to different bars, you were not the first bar we tried. I hadn't even been to your bar when we started trying that. I just remember going. This could be really hard. This could be really a challenge to find the right place.
Speaker 1:That is interested, taking a chance on an idea that's not a very common idea. I had gone to different bars, tried it and Michelle and I were like we're just going to have to keep trying more wine bars and find one that has a different vibe. We went to yours and I'll never forget the night I met you. I thought you were the wine rep from the wine. It was a pasting night, it was a Thursday night. I thought you were the wine rep for those wines.
Speaker 1:The reason why I thought that is because we came for this tasting. We're like, hey, this will be a good chance to discover this new wine bar. We started asking you questions about the wines and you knew everything. It was just like you rattled off all the different wines that we were drinking that night. I assumed that's what this guy does for a living he travels around representing these wines. It was only later in the evening that I figured out, oh, the rep had gone home already. He was done, you were just doing what you do. Then I remember thinking this guy knows a shit ton about wine. Like holy cow he's dropping wine stuff, and not in a bravado way. You were just like, yeah, this is what this is. I would be intrigued and I would ask you a follow up question until we just kind of geeked out together.
Speaker 1:But, then I remember approaching you after this and going hey, we really liked our experience here, here's what we want to do. Is there any chance you would let us do this? You said, yes, that originally started on your patio as a smaller group, the first one.
Speaker 1:Then it has moved into you now close early and we do a private event where it's your crew and the people who attend. What on earth made you say yes to that? I would love to know. Why did you say yes when everyone else was skeptical? You took a chance on us. Why?
Speaker 2:Two reasons. I try to say yes to a lot of different stuff because I think our method here is definitely spaghetti against the wall. Try things, see what sticks. We're always trying something new. If you stick to what you're doing all the time, it's a guaranteed way to fail. If you're not trying to grow, not trying new things, it's not a good recipe. That was number one. Number two is I like how you framed it. I enjoy talking to you, but B I was encouraged by the way you were going to frame things. Yes, sometimes it's like well, what kind of Christians are they? Or whatnot. I enjoyed the way that I really was attracted to what you said and the way you were going to run it. It made it pretty easy.
Speaker 1:Okay, elaborate, because I don't know what did I say that sounded different than other Christians.
Speaker 2:Well, I still don't offend anybody. So it wasn't going to be offensive material. It wasn't going to be the doom and gloom. It's more of kind of explorative going through it and a welcoming environment, not exclusionary. So it was different from what I'm sure a lot of people thought it would have been. And I think people are surprised when they come in, like the chaplain that came in. He used to work at the hospital. He was a chaplain in the hospital and he sat in and he's like, yeah, I'll hang out and I'll listen to it. And he listened to you talking. He's like, yeah, I'm right with this guy. He's making a lot of sense up there and Kevin's a big part of the community here. He's here a lot, but he also represents a lot of our values too. So it was right there. It was there to be.
Speaker 1:That's awesome it's. It has been funny. I recall another time we had a guy show up and I like to think I'm fairly high on the emotional intelligence scale. I can read a room. I can read people's body language and as a communicator, that's important, right? If you are looking at someone going, they're angry right now or they're disengaged or they look bored right, you change what you're doing based on how you're reading someone.
Speaker 1:I remember one night this guy comes in and just looks pissed the whole time and Comes in looking pissed and you know, I'm like maybe he just needs a couple glasses of wine to chill him out a little bit. But as the night goes on, I can visibly see him changing his demeanor, like his physical posture is changing. And he gets to the end of the night and he comes up to me. He goes hey, I have a confession to tell you. I'm like, okay, what? And he goes. I came here to to basically cause you issues and I'm like you mean, and he goes.
Speaker 1:I got invited to this and I thought this is the dumbest thing ever. You know some, some preachers, you know hijacking this community to preach doom and gloom and he's gonna scare everybody and it's gonna be hellfire and all this. And he's like and I was ready just to To go at you with questions. We open it up to a lot of dialogue and he said but then you kept saying things that I liked and that intrigued me and he goes and I realized I don't want to argue with this guy, I just want to be a part of this, and I think that is what a lot of people have experienced is like we're not. We're not there to you to preach hate or exclusion or tell you all the things that you've done wrong. I really am a firm believer of Jesus is bringing good news, and I don't think Christianity sounds good to a lot of people anymore, and so we're gonna create space where it actually does sound like good news, and and I just think it's cool that you have allowed us to do that and that that really became, you know, the proof of concept. And now we've had a lot more doors open and I just got reached out to a wine bar in Prescott that said, hey, we want to host this. We've seen what you're doing, gilbert, would you do an event here? And again, all it took was one person to say, yeah, try it, we're open to it, and so I want to publicly go on record and say thank you To you. I'd say Cheers.
Speaker 1:I think it's time for a drink break. All right, man, that's a good wine, very good podcast. We're way more fun when you're drinking. All right, I love to ask during the drink break About one. Just I want one memory that you have of One of the pinnacle wine experiences where the way I like to say is all the stars aligned right, it's the perfect glass at the perfect time, in the perfect setting, and you just go. This is, this is as good as it is, and I love hearing people tell these wine stories. I know you've got a ton of them, so I want you just to pick one, and it could be a recent one, where you, just you, you tasted that glass and you went this this is it, what? What is that for you?
Speaker 2:It was Italy. So this year February, we were in Tuscany. We go to Montalcino. I wasn't expecting a lot from Montalcino. I've had some wines from there, but it's a smaller town. Montalcino is much larger. So we're going to Montalcino. We're like, okay, there's like a, there's a ton of wine, there's a tasting in the, in the back corner of the city somewhere. So we got to go find this. We walk into this fort that is defunct now. The walls still stand, we're still has the cannon holes, all this. We go into the back of this corner, we head down.
Speaker 2:It's this cellar where they do tastings and it's all Brunello de Montalcino. So these are wines they make like one, maybe two barrels of a year. They never leave, never leave the city. 60 euro I get to taste four of these different Brunello de Montalcino's. And there's a picture of me. Maybe we'll have to post it later, but I'm sitting there like it was. It was Incredible, it was tear waters and flavors that I'd never even experienced before. Truly, truly fine, high-end wine that's still Hard to describe, is still rustic, so homegrown, and you can really get the sense of that. Like this isn't meant to, it's not meant to leave the city. This is for them wines that are four or five hundred euro a bottle, and we're get to have a little sip of this. Just touch, just touch the Sun a little bit, and it was, it was incredible.
Speaker 1:I think what's so cool about that is you know, by your own admission, you've drank 16,000 some wine, different wines, and you still can have these experiences that wow you, and I think that's just what's so amazing about about wine.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you don't have to go halfway around the world. It's in your own backyard. You can head down to Arizona wineries and have the same experience. Head down to Sinoid and Wilcox and Just look at the desert and wonder how they're growing grapes.
Speaker 1:We just recently, on a podcast, talked with Chad Preston of birds and barrels and talked about the Wilcox growing scene. So yeah, we've, we've. We've had a little bit of that on the podcast already. At our event, what we often do is we unite, tag team. I will talk about a topic usually it rotates and then usually do a Q&A Mixed in between. That is you doing wine theory 101 or wine tasting 101, and then also a setup for each of the wines that we drink that night. People just love this. They love the way you describe the wine and all of this. What has been really cool is there's been a few times you've crossed over onto my side of the conversation and, whatever we were talking about, you're like I want to speak to a little bit of my journey with that and you've shared a little bit of your own faith. From my understanding, you've grown up with Christianity and with an understanding of Christianity. I'd love to hear from you what has been your journey with that to where you are today.
Speaker 2:I went to church till I was 18, apostolic Christian went out here in Phoenix. It put me off for the same reasons that people were probably skeptical about bringing you into a bar because it was hellfire brimstone. We went and visited my family back in Indiana recently and we went to church with them because Grandma was there and you got to. The first word out of the preacher's mouth on the sermon was hell.
Speaker 1:How do you be innocent with hell?
Speaker 2:It was hell comma and then the rest of the sentence.
Speaker 1:You said it wasn't hell low, and you just got stuck on the hell low part.
Speaker 2:No, I was with my sister and my brother-in-law and they still go to church, but they're again more along your lines. That's the kind of church they attend. They were there with me and as soon as we got in the car they were like. His first word was hell why?
Speaker 1:Why.
Speaker 2:That's great. I don't know, anyway, my journey from there after I stopped attending. I still go back, my parents still attend, so I'll help them serve lunch every once in a while and whatnot, but I think I just kind of more exploded the idea of it outwards and I don't know if I don't really have a faith that I believe in, necessarily. But my thought is, if something created the entire universe, he's probably not as worried about everything I'm doing all the time as people would like to think that it seems selfish and self-centered to think that you're that important when the entire universe is so huge. So not to say that, not you say you're not important. We're all special in our own way, but just that you giving yourself that anxiety and making your trek through life. Life's already difficult. Why make it harder? You're trying your best and I think that that's probably good enough.
Speaker 1:A lot of the times yeah, christianity definitely has made the world harder on a lot of people and, going back to my earlier comment about it, it doesn't look like good news anymore to a lot of people and it looks like, oh, if you believe this, this is going to add all these extra things that you have to now worry about. And a lot of people are like I'm not interested in that. Like you said, life's already hard. Why do I want to go add all these things to it? So you basically say at 18, for you was kind of the turning point when you were able to make your own, or I mean, of course it's more of a Venn diagram.
Speaker 2:It's not like it's not 18 in one day and I'm like deuces. You know it was.
Speaker 1:I'm lucky Brad is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's fair, but for me it's, it's always click-clack, and Pete Holmes has a good saying is like religions, like an empty spray can. It's always if you shake it and you can hear it click it around in there somewhere. It's never goes away. It's, it's, it's always going to be in there somewhere working. You know it's part of it, was part of the building blocks of your life. So, and the values, a lot of the values are fantastic and things that I think are common sense, but sometimes you know people need to hear, but it's nice to have those two and it will always be a part of you. It's never, it's never not going to be. You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean, yeah, so as you, as you look now, removed from the 18 year old version of you, what do you, what do you think about Christianity these days? Obviously, you've you've seen the negative parts, but like as a whole, you've, you've seen, you know what we do at the community events. That's showed you another, you know another strain of it at least, but just as you kind of see the the whole scope of Christianity, what do you see today?
Speaker 2:I wish the grayscale was more apparent, because it's it really. Is that label. It's falling under the label where you get just put in the box immediately, like, oh you're this, then you believe these things that I've told. I've been told that everyone believes that that is a Christian right. So that's pretty much life in general, though, where we're not seeing the gray, we see black, we see white and we see the label and and everyone gets put in this, in this box.
Speaker 2:I don't have any issues with religion whatsoever, until it crosses over into the other side, where we cross over into hate, which is led by fear and ignorance, but that's. There's so many other things that lead to that, not just religion. So blaming religion in and of itself is kind of ridiculous in my opinion. But yeah, where it's at today, I don't know. I'd like to see more of what you're doing out there and less of people that feel beholden. I feel there's a lot of people that are there, though they feel like they're a part of a community that is not there, and leaving that community seems scary. So where they're like I don't, I don't hate people, I don't hate these people, I don't. I don't maybe feel this way, but I, my community, feels this way, and I don't want to be ostracized from my community, so therefore, I'm I'm going to feel this way in order to stay.
Speaker 1:Stay inside, that's yeah that's a huge part of it is that sense of I belong to this and I don't necessarily fit in with it. But if I leave it, what am I left with? And a lot, and you know, a lot of people say, even these events that we do like this is, this is church for me, that's not how we designed it. But that's when you lose your community. You grab on to. You know anything that you can, and I think people are looking for safe spaces, third places, right, right, that experience 100%, all right. So let's focus in on Jesus. Ok, so strip away everything else. What do you think about Jesus? Oh, not your question, you don't have a right answer. I just want to know. I think it's interesting to hear what do you, what do you see in Jesus? I think he's one of the many people throughout history that said, hey, we should all be nice to nice to each other.
Speaker 2:And then everyone said put that guy on a cross, kill him. Yes, exactly, it's just how many. How many people stood up throughout history and said you know we can, we can be great, we can advance our society and we can respect and be nice to each other at the same time. And everyone says impossible, kill that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. What's something you're learning right now?
Speaker 1:Hmm, ooh yeah.
Speaker 2:So right now I brought it up earlier but I've been focused on Portugal. It's a huge blind spot for my education, so I've been learning a lot about that recently. So trying to delve into Portuguese wine, the history of it besides just port, learning about the other regions as well. So that's been a lot of fun. I guess, again, best education in the world you get to drink while you do it.
Speaker 1:So is that how you these days, do you learn kind of tackling in a region at a time or a country at a time, or how do you find yourself learning new areas like that?
Speaker 2:A lot of times that just comes so from doing your thing, doing the Thursday wine tastings we do every Thursday here at Divine. There's new stuff all the time. I learn stuff every week too with those, because I have to study them, and at any time I find new bits of information. It's exciting and then I teach the employees about it. We all do the tasting together for all the customers and then other private tastings that I do, so there's always something that comes onto the table for me where I'm like I don't know enough about this and I get to attack it and learn more.
Speaker 1:There's never anything I really appreciate about you. You know more about wine than maybe anyone else that I talk regularly to, and yet you are a perpetual learner. You are not the guy that's like I've got to figure it out. I know it all. You're constantly learning, constantly asking questions. Even when we're at tastings with a wine rep, you're peppering questions about what, is it this or is it that? And I just think that speaks volumes to you, even someone who's had as much wine experience as you have. You keep learning, and that's just been awesome to see, and you're a great model for all of us.
Speaker 2:Clayton, like when we do our tastings with Ron and the. I go hey, what was the soil type of city for this? He goes I knew you're going to ask that.
Speaker 1:Then he used us to get his laptop out.
Speaker 2:It's okay, ron, I'll look it up. You're good, you're good.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this might be related. What's something you're excited about right now?
Speaker 2:The business has grown a lot and our wine clubs kind of has blown up. I'm really excited for this December to kind of see where we're going to end up. How many wine club members, everyone out there to join the divide divine wine club. It's fantastic. I got kind of see where because that's going to be the thing that kind of brings us to the next level and gets us over a certain hump, that we're trying to get to that and I'm headed to Columbia Valley in October. I've never been to the region so I'm very excited to explore that. There's plenty of things to try in Washington and they're very open to innovation. A lot of different varietals. They're actually doing quite a few Portuguese varietals up there too, so I'm really excited to try some Terriga national. You know from hedges. When I go to that point we're going to help them with harvest a little bit, so very excited to go to Washington and try some Washington wines.
Speaker 1:Nice Love the Northwest. What's a problem that you're trying to solve these days?
Speaker 2:It's kind of a good problem. Our wine tastings are very full and we're trying to figure out how to make it more efficient, be able to get more people and be able to serve more people and have everyone enjoy it. I hate having to turn people away and you know I want things to stay efficient. So that's a big problem and we're figuring it out. That's what we always do we're more, let's add more, and then let's see how much we can handle and let's figure out a way to deal with that.
Speaker 1:Once it gets bigger, once it breaks you, then you're like let's back off, add a little bit. Yes, exactly when do you see the wine industry going in the future? What are the trends that you see coming?
Speaker 2:I hope, openness to other varietals, because the world keeps warming up, we're going to have to start enjoying more than just Cabernet, sauvignon and Chardonnay. That's the biggest thing, I think, is people being accepting that other varieties there and they are maybe just as good as the ones you're drinking and they taste different, but they can also taste very similar if you're drinking it from the right region. So I think openness to new varietals is going to be a big thing. I also think we're going to be going away from glass eventually, so getting used to getting a lot of your wine and maybe bags, bags and boxes. That won't happen immediately, but eventually down the road that will happen.
Speaker 2:We are running out of glass, running out of cork, and a bag is actually perfect. You have almost no oxygenation. You have no light degradation because it's inside a box, whereas glass even though if they're dark glasses, there's still light that gets through. It's actually a great containment system. But again, it's like when we switch from beer bottles to beer and cans. It takes time, but wine just moves slower than everything else because we only get one shot a year at it, whereas everyone else gets a couple of weeks to turn around.
Speaker 1:That is a controversial hot take. Yeah, that you are pro wine bags in a box, that is whoo Well because I know what you're saying just experientially that's very different.
Speaker 2:That's the whole reason. The whole reason for glass, the whole reason for corks is about the experience. Not that this is the best method. I mean, why do we even use 750-milliliter bottles? Because the English, when they're making glass for the French originally that's how much air is in your lungs. When you blow out, you get 750-milliliters every time. There's obviously a lot more capacity, but when you're blowing glass, you get a consistent product 750-milliliters over and over again. That is the only reason that we do 750-milliliters. There's so many things. The only reason we're doing it is because this is the way we've done it. Wine is the slowest to change of all the liquors, but eventually you're going to come a point where you're going to have to, so why do the same? That's the thing. So yeah, it's not sexy to use a screw cap, but it's just as good it's, in my opinion.
Speaker 1:I can get on board with the screw cap. I don't mind the screw cap, it is way easier. I mean, there really is no comparison Then. Just being able to tighten the red back up, that's really nice. The bag and the bottle, that's the whole bag system. That's just a different.
Speaker 2:Don't get me wrong. I mean 30 years down the road. I'll be in a nursing home at this point.
Speaker 1:We will pull up this podcast and we will say remember when Clayton told us this is where it was going.
Speaker 2:I'm not just a tinfoil hat. I swear this is happening.
Speaker 1:What's the next place you want to travel? You talked about your trip to Italy and how amazing that was. What's next on your bucket list?
Speaker 2:Chili, chili in Argentina. I convinced my wife to head down there and that she won't get her head chopped off. I'm very excited to go down there. They're very excited to have visitors because it is far away from a lot of different places that buy their wine. The US is the biggest importer of Argentinian wine. Argentina is also one of the biggest drinkers of their own wine in the world. They drink a lot of their own wine, but the US is the biggest importer. They're excited to have us down there. They walk me in, they have a place to stay for you. They give you free meals. It's absolutely gorgeous. It's very similar to how we do things in Arizona High elevation, minimal irrigation, very continental climate. I'm very excited to go down there and see what they're doing. Try the things that we don't get up here. There's so much we don't get up here from there.
Speaker 1:That's what you learn, or at least what I have learned most traveling and experiencing wine in the actual region it's made, is they don't distribute the really good stuff. They're really good stuff, you got to be there. They have lots of it there, but you have to be there to get that stuff. That's what I've learned of like, oh, that's good. Well, you can get French wine here, you can get Argentinian wine here, you can get some of it. But the stuff that you're talking about from Italy, you're not buying that bottle here. That's something that you got to be there in the right place, from the source of the wine, usually a tip for wine travel. That's good to know. All right, where can people go to find out more about what you are doing?
Speaker 2:So dividedvinecom. So we have all of our events on there. We have our wine list and our beer list on there. You can also follow us Facebook, which is dividedvine, on Instagram at the dividedvine. Yeah, that's the best, because all of our events, all the fun stuff we do we do in October over fast coming up Every Thursday we do wine tasting. We have specials on Tuesdays and Wednesdays as well. So there's tons of stuff and if you want to get a sneak peek of the menu and see if you want to come in or not, check it out so untapped, or you can go to the website and it'll have the list up to a list on both of those.
Speaker 1:Nice. So those of you listening or watching from Arizona, this is a gym You've got to check out. Well, dude, I love you. Brother, I am so grateful for your continued friendship, for all that you're teaching me in the wine world, and thanks for taking the time today out of your busy schedule. You're in the bar itself as we do this because you've got so much going on, so thank you again for taking the time to be on the podcast with us. Of course, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Cheers, all right.
Speaker 1:Anything else you want to add that we didn't get to.
Speaker 2:No, I think we covered most of it, yeah.
Speaker 1:Thanks everyone for listening to another episode of Cabernet and Prey. We love diving into the wine industry, talking about Jesus, talking about wine with Jesus, people and just bringing these two worlds together, so we appreciate you being a part of it. We'll catch you all soon.