When Keith Saarloos swapped apple rows for vineyard vines, little did he know he'd be uncorking a legacy along with his bottles of 2021 Mayhem Grenache. As we sit down, glasses in hand, Keith takes us through the transformation of Saarloos and Sons, revealing how a family farm evolved into a vineyard with deep respect for tradition and terroir. Through our conversation, we wander down the less-traveled paths of the wine industry, uncovering the rugged beauty of stress-cultivated vines and the intimate moments that life, wine, and companionship can brew.
Amidst sips of vibrant Grenache, our chat meanders from the whimsical pairing of cupcakes with wine, to Keith's unorthodox perspectives on faith and spirituality found within the pages of the Bible. We even delve into the artistic contributions of underdogs and the unbreakable spirit of creating beauty against the odds. Keith's tales are interwoven with reflections on crafting wines that embody the family's soul, resisting the pull of fleeting trends, and likening his wine-making philosophy to a punk band's ethos—always authentic, always unique.
As we wrap up our episode, the conversation turns personal, touching on deep-seated satisfaction over fleeting happiness, the quest for generational wealth that surpasses monetary value, and the richness of life's simple joys. With Keith's vivid storytelling, you can explore the parallels between winemaking and life's larger questions, leaving you to ponder the legacy we each hope to leave behind. So, pour yourself a glass and join us for a journey into the heart of wine, family, excitement, and the stories that bind us all.
Wines by Saarloos and Sons
Website: SaarloosAndSons.com
Instagram: @Saarloosandsons
See audio and video episodes at: https://communionwineco.com/podcast/
Find out more at: https://linktr.ee/communionwineco
When Keith Saarloos swapped apple rows for vineyard vines, little did he know he'd be uncorking a legacy along with his bottles of 2021 Mayhem Grenache. As we sit down, glasses in hand, Keith takes us through the transformation of Saarloos and Sons, revealing how a family farm evolved into a vineyard with deep respect for tradition and terroir. Through our conversation, we wander down the less-traveled paths of the wine industry, uncovering the rugged beauty of stress-cultivated vines and the intimate moments that life, wine, and companionship can brew.
Amidst sips of vibrant Grenache, our chat meanders from the whimsical pairing of cupcakes with wine, to Keith's unorthodox perspectives on faith and spirituality found within the pages of the Bible. We even delve into the artistic contributions of underdogs and the unbreakable spirit of creating beauty against the odds. Keith's tales are interwoven with reflections on crafting wines that embody the family's soul, resisting the pull of fleeting trends, and likening his wine-making philosophy to a punk band's ethos—always authentic, always unique.
As we wrap up our episode, the conversation turns personal, touching on deep-seated satisfaction over fleeting happiness, the quest for generational wealth that surpasses monetary value, and the richness of life's simple joys. With Keith's vivid storytelling, you can explore the parallels between winemaking and life's larger questions, leaving you to ponder the legacy we each hope to leave behind. So, pour yourself a glass and join us for a journey into the heart of wine, family, excitement, and the stories that bind us all.
Wines by Saarloos and Sons
Website: SaarloosAndSons.com
Instagram: @Saarloosandsons
See audio and video episodes at: https://communionwineco.com/podcast/
Find out more at: https://linktr.ee/communionwineco
Well, we've got another episode of Cabernet and Pray Coming At you. It's the podcast where we drink wine and we talk about Jesus and life and all sorts of things and go wherever it goes. And today I have no idea where it's going to go because we've got my friend, keith Sarlos. Keith is a guy running a winery and a farm in Los Olivos, california. It's known as Sarlos and Sons. They are a fourth generation family company. Keith considers himself more of a farmer than a winemaker and this shapes his approach to what he does. I had the chance to visit Keith at his winery last week and I discovered that Keith loves to talk, so I'm going to do my best to keep this podcast from not being a three hour episode. Welcome to the podcast, keith.
Speaker 2:Hello guys, Thank you for having me. I love that.
Speaker 1:That's great I think there's something else we need to know about you that I didn't get at the beginning. Anything crucial we got to know.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know, it's like. I think the best way to describe me or us or what we do is kind of our family creed first, and that is, we live to honor those that have come before us and we prepare the way for those yet to come. That is my charge in life. And wine, or my brother playing baseball or whatever my kids choose to do, that is their charge and what you do with that. For me, it's this, it's wine, it's being a farmer, it's being a winemaker, being a loudmouth when people need it. I think that's kind of who I am. As a nutshell, wine is a byproduct of all the work that we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Awesome On that note.
Speaker 2:I'm trying not to be too wordy.
Speaker 1:It's time.
Speaker 1:Oh, we just got started, it's time to talk about the wine, and today is going to be fun because we're both going to talk about a wine that Keith has made and it's the same exact bottle. So I got tipped off to what Keith was drinking and I happen to have a bottle of it that I bought last week. So this is the 2021 Starloss and Sons mayhem. This is cash on the bottle for those of you watching on video, and this is a Grenache wine that Keith has made. And this is a little intimidating because I'm going to compare my notes to the notes of the person who actually made this wine. So Keith obviously gets the final vote, but I get the layman's vote. So here's what I get on this.
Speaker 1:First off, the color is beautiful. You pour this thing in your glass and you just want to look at it. It's a beautiful light. Red Invites you to see through it, like you're looking through a looking glass. I mean, it's just so pretty. I got four different things stood out to me Dried strawberry, pink grapefruit, lavender and leather were the notes that I got. Such a beautiful blend of all of those. This is a really easy drinking wine, could go well with food, but doesn't need food, and that's how I often describe wines like do you need something to pair with it? This one, you could easily sit on this on an afternoon or bring it to dinner, and I think you would hold up really well for both. Now, keith the master, you made it. What do you get out of this wine? I?
Speaker 2:think you nailed it. I mean, when I ever I think about Grenache, grenache is the wine everybody should be drinking, but kind of isn't? The rest of the world has really kind of nailed Grenache where it's kind of like a dietary staple. So I always kind of like describing Grenache as kind of the Paul Rudd of Wines in America, where it's. I've never gone to go see a movie because Paul Rudd was in it, but I've never not liked a movie Paul Rudd was in.
Speaker 2:So for me Grenache is if you like Pino, this is what Pino wishes it was. If you like Sera, this is Sera without the bite. If you like Cab, this is Cab without the spice. It is the dead center of all the Venn diagrams, of all the different flavors of wine. It always ends up right in the middle with Grenache and I think it's the most. It's a farmer's grape, it's a winemaker's grape, it's a drinker's grape and whenever you're out and nobody, everybody's sliding the wine list across the table saying you pick, you pick, I don't know enough. Blah, blah, blah, which is totally a lie.
Speaker 2:Always go for a bottle of Grenache because it is going to make the most amount of people happy the minute you open it. So I always bring two bottles to every party and they're always the first two bottles that are gone, even if there's 15 or 20 different wines out there, because everybody kind of does a little suicide at the fountain drink kind of a thing, and when they hit Grenache they go. I like it, this is great, but it doesn't have that hook. If you love a spice or you like a bite or you like kind of a really weak, thin-skinned Pino, this is where you're going to end up. So if you drink enough wine, all roads lead to Grenache. So you might as well start on the right road.
Speaker 1:So yeah, who doesn't like all that? I mean, everybody loves Paul Rudd.
Speaker 2:Paul Rudd's man. I got to tell you that the guy can do no wrong. I mean, he can be Ant-Man and he can be in you know what the 40-year-old Virgin and he can be in this or that. He could be a comedian or serious or whatever, and it's just like it's a great catch-all. And I always think Grenache always goes back to that and I'm proud of my sons on that bottle right there Look at that little mug Because we also make two different Grenaches on two different vineyards and we can really showcase the terroir, which is one of my favorite words, which is really just like what we are talking about. Is the location right? We're talking about where it came from and why did everything come together to make this wine taste the way it does. So I absolutely love Grenache. I'm glad you're drinking it, man. I'm glad you started on it.
Speaker 1:It's a great one. I'm digging it. I even bought two of these bottles because I want to give one to a friend of mine. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I see they're going to be the first two bottles gone. Always, man, you were right baby.
Speaker 1:You had prophetic words. You didn't even know it, I know. So tell us, Keith. When did you get interested in wine? When did this journey begin for you?
Speaker 2:Next week I'll probably be interested in it. This all started 25 years ago. I, like this. A nice old lady made this quilt. She's a master like been doing it for 50 years.
Speaker 2:And this is our little vineyard on Ballard Canyon, in the midst of the chaos that is my office. So about 25 years ago we're celebrating it this year my parents, my dad, wanted to grow something from the ground and raise cattle and found this real hunk of crap property up here that was in patch shape but, long story short, had Fuji apples trees on it, and Providence will be a major component of everything we talk about today. Where farmed the apples for a full year I thought we had them sold went to deliver them, got turned away at the dock, brought them home, pushed them out on the ground, watched cows eat them A lot of crying and throwing up and said, well, this isn't the direction we're going to go. And we pivoted. We tore everything out, replanted the whole place in grapes and if the place was a vineyard, my old man never would have bought the place and asked a vineyard just down the street hey, if we plant these grapes, will you buy from us? And they said yes, and we kind of launched all the ships and primarily we were growing grapes and selling them to other people and I always think of that as kind of the metaphor wine so nebulous, and everything else.
Speaker 2:But I always think about it like music and we wanted to be songwriters. The stage, if you will, was not our end desire. I went to a concert recently with someone and we were talking about it and he goes what percentage of people do you think in the show wish they were the person on stage? And I said I don't know, like 10% he's like no man, it's got to be like 90.
Speaker 2:I'm like really, he goes. Yeah, everybody goes to the show because they want to be on the stage and I never really thought about that and for us it's the complete opposite. You came out and saw the vineyard. We spend so much time there and effort, because that's where the song is written, that is the sense of place, of terroir, and then making the wine, like the joke, I would kind of said to you it's like we call the winery the slaughterhouse because it's like that's where, when we pick the grapes that we worked for a full year on, we bring them up to the winery, not to screw it up. Our goal is not to step in front of what the great song we wrote, it's not to amplify, it's not to auto tune, it's not to do all the garbage that a lot of people do. Our goal is to have hit record on the tape and then just sing the song.
Speaker 2:And I got into wine being a farmer and then we moved up here to raise our kids and I took over all the sales of all the fruit and everything else, and so it was kind of this dual life. And then 2008 hit and my wife and my life was pressed up against the wall financially. Because here we're doing all of this stuff to try to live here and sell and wine off the back of my truck Basically we made in the garage and my wife's just like my mom said to my dad when we couldn't sell the apples, well, why don't you plant grapes? It seems like people want those, and just very simple, right. But because my dad's married to my mom, he's bulletproof and he's like okay, and went for it. And with my wife she said to me it seems like people want the wine. You know, more than all the other stuff we were doing and it was just all in. And you know, went from nothing to being a winery and that wasn't the goal. But we got shoved on stage. You know, songwriting wasn't paying the bills the way it needed to and we had to sing the songs on stage and that evolved.
Speaker 2:And now our tasting room's been. You know, we've been making wine for 20 years and the tasting room's been open 15. And you know, every year we burn our whole company to the ground and brand new labels, brand new bottles. We don't sell in any stores, we don't sell in any restaurants. We're basically a glorified farm stand and really, really proud of the wines we make. We, you know, put pictures of people we love on the bottles and get to share them by honor honoring you know a kid, or honoring you know my dad or my uncle or my grandparents or whoever, or preparing the way by having you know my daughter makes a wine, my son's involved in this one, he makes our rosé, and so it's kind of this honor prepare all in one, and wine is just kind of our vehicle to do that. That was a long answer. Sorry about that.
Speaker 1:Well, you discovered you had a beautiful singing voice and the world wanted it.
Speaker 2:So how fun is that it was mostly let's get, let's get after it and pay some bills, you know, and figure out everything else. It was either we're going to succeed or it was going to kill me. It was 50 50.
Speaker 1:Well, you're here, so that's a good sign that you've done yeah, okay. So I noticed something when I was with you that I've been to a lot of wineries that I could not recall ever seeing this before, and then I've discovered this is kind of a thing for you guys. You are known for serving cupcakes with your wines and you even you kind of connect it as like a badge of honor as your street cred. Where did that come from?
Speaker 2:So we had a family up here, Kevin and Amber. They have enjoyed bagels, enjoyed cupcakes or they started with enjoyed cupcakes and now they have enjoyed bagels and they're moving forward doing some other really awesome stuff, which has been amazing. And when we first opened, you know, Amber had a job she didn't want or didn't like like everybody else in the world and her, you know, she talked to her husband and said, you know, I can't do this another day or whatever. And it's like, well, what do you want to do? And she could say you know, I want to bake. And she came in with these little cupcakes and we said, hey, listen, we got this little area right here. If we sell out, we're partners. If you don't, if we don't sell any, then you don't know what's it done. And that's our 15 years ago. And what was really great was people came in, because having a little cupcakeery you know, little bakery, basically in our little town of a thousand people, you know that that'd be a big ask to be able to support all of that with with that product. But for us it was this great thing, because a lot of people like they get into wine because they've done something else in their life and they were successful. And now they're going to build a monument to themselves or whatever and put a name on it Like Sarlos and Sons is us, right? It's not Sarlos, it's Sarlos and Sons, it's a. It's a plumbing company name, it's not a winery and for us it was.
Speaker 2:I I come into this with no preconceived notions, right, I want everyone to like wine. I want whoever you are and you're walking out the street, and if this is your first time ever trying wine, right, or if you think about it in your life, when, when the people that hung out after the party and took out your trash and help you do your dishes and stuff like that, and then you, then you open the good wine, right, Because you judge your wine, you judge your friends on the wine, you serve them and you open that good bottle because it's just that group. And then you know, then all of a sudden you're risk deep in a bag of cookies and you're drinking wine. You know that's how life happens, right, and for cupcakes and wine it really it explodes, the BS that comes with a lot of things that keep people away from wine and I don't like that man, you know. I want wanting to be for everybody, because that's really what it is. And so we have brought so many people in because they wanted to have wine and try a cupcake, and then we made it, okay, you know. And then they got into our message and our story and who we are, and then we get to be this Rockwellian part of their lives.
Speaker 2:And, you know, some, a lot of other wineries will either talk crap on it or try to mimic it, and I'm always like good luck, right, Because Amber is a long distance competitive runner, she's not going to stop, and we have like 600 flavors. They all pair with our wines. It is just a good time and it's one of those things where it's like you're when you're learning about something, but it's also just within reach. You know, that's where art starts taking shape, when you take something very complex and you explain it easily so everybody understands it. You know, in the Christians sense it's a parable, right, you can't really explain the vastness of God's thought, but if you make it a parable, you're like, oh, I get that, you know, and so that's our little tie in. So it really.
Speaker 2:You know, it's the anti snob of part of wine which I vehemently hate. You know, the snobbery of it is always a joke to me because it's grown by guys who look like me and dirtbags and you know maiden wineries where we just all sit together. I mean, you were there. We sit together and eat and enjoy each other's company and there's no pretense that happens Somewhere. It gets injected right and I hate it. I can't stand it because it turns more people off than it turns on and I don't like people that build higher fences. I like people who build longer tables, right, and that's kind of what we're about.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you reminded me. I had just a bonus note in my notes here. I didn't know if we'd get to it, but I feel like this was fun to put in here. I love something I read on your website. You wrote this we think the difference between a $2 cigar and a $20 is $18. Yeah, that's probably about right. Yeah, I thought that was so great. Okay, but that's a little ironic, okay. So to poke at that a little bit, someone might say well, your wines are not cheap wines, right? So what makes your wines then worth it? If that's your philosophy on cigars, perfect. How does that affect wine making for you?
Speaker 2:So when I buy it, when I have like a tractor cigar right where it's like I'm gonna smoke a cigar while I'm working and really enjoy life and be like dude, today was a great day, but I'm also gotta get some work done and I flip up the window on the back of the tractor and I'm puffing away on a cigar. I'm feeling great, right, there is a difference. Like when we said the $2 and $18, the $2 is like, yeah, it's pretty good, it burns the same and get a nice little buzz going and hey, life's good. But that other cigar the difference between the printing press of a Swisher Suite or a Backwoods or some other garbage pack is one thing. But then when you talk about the other stuff that goes into why is this a great cigar, right? Then you're starting to talk about contemplation, you're starting to think about where it came from, you're starting to think about all the bits and pieces that go into it and you're like, yeah, that's worth it, that's worth the money, right. But when you say the difference between $2 and $18 is, or $2 and $20 is $18, the answer is true just the same way as the difference between my very first car that's clapped out S10 that I drove forever, that I loved, and my dream car. They're both cars, right, they're both cars, and there's a little bit of difference. If I wanna get somewhere, yes, they will both get me there, but one I will enjoy, right. And so when I drink a $3 bottle of wine number one I can't even buy, like in our wines there's more money in barrel costs than there is in a finished $10 wine, right?
Speaker 2:So when we start getting into the quality of manufacturing and the things that we do above and beyond, yeah, then it starts getting into. Let me show you why. So we do tours every Saturday for free for anybody. I just say DM me on Instagram and I'll tell you where to meet us and I'll walk you through the vineyard. Because somebody gave me like a friend of mine gave me crap, saying where you are saying dude, how can you charge like 70 bucks for this bottle? I said hop in and hopped in and I showed him everything and went through the whole process and then at the end he's like how can you only charge 70 bucks for this bottle of wine? That's insane, right? So our goal is always to under promise and over do it. I was not dipping in crap on.
Speaker 2:No, no, no but I agree with you.
Speaker 1:What's the difference? I was asking a question. Well, it's kind of worth the value. I just I liked your cigar line. I thought it was fun.
Speaker 2:But that's true. But I like that because everybody starts off with the $2 cigar, right, Everybody starts off with a thing that brings you in and then you kind of step up and step up, and step up. And one of the you know, I always like to say I try to keep my thrills cheap so I stay rich, because if my thrills are cheap, then anything above my cheap thrills is like this is the greatest. I absolutely love it. This is awesome.
Speaker 2:And by doing that, the most difficult part to me is, as I get into something, my appreciation level rises. And when my appreciation level rises, now I'm starting to see the difference between this and that. Like, everybody has stuff that is their thing, right, somebody's a photographer, somebody plays a guitar, somebody play, you know, cars or sort of whatever it is right. As you develop appreciation, you start seeing the subtle differences between this, like the quality, and that, because everybody's first, you know, batch of furniture is from IKEA or wherever, and then it falls apart and you're like, oh, this is a piece of junk. And then you go to something where, oh, I'm buying this thing because I have done research, I see how they manufacture it, I see the care and the love that goes into it.
Speaker 2:And then all of a sudden, you're like that is what I am choosing to vote to succeed with my money, and for me, that's what we have to earn each and every day. That's why we don't sell to sores and we don't sell to restaurants. Because I make wine for you or whoever's listening to this. I am beholden to our end consumer, not for someone I'm selling it to, then we'll in turn sell it to you, right? So for me, that step up is 100% appreciation. And so when you come in and, if we can, you know, show you the way early on, but also take all the pretense off, like, have cupcakes and drink some wine and do this and have a great time with people you're with, then we get to be that song that you dance to, and that's kind of what we really want to be.
Speaker 1:Love it. Okay, so you have a unique connection with the show South Park we talked about.
Speaker 2:What does?
Speaker 1:your South Park claim to fame.
Speaker 2:My South Park claim to fame. Well, what's really nice is we have a couple of people that are from that show, that have been there like since day one, and they've hidden us a few times into the show. They've actually drawn us as characters, which is a crazy, crazy honor, you know. In that same vein, I'm always proud that if you go back to watch Parks and Rec, whenever they're drinking our wine or drinking on that show, it's our wine.
Speaker 1:Oh, really so.
Speaker 2:Ron Swanson. Yeah, so if you go back to the find your things thing, where they're sitting there and Ron Swanson's listening to stuff on the headphones and they're drinking wine and cheersing, it's our glass and our wine on the table. So we've been hidden by quite a few really really great people in a bunch of like different movies and stuff like that. It's an unbelievable honor that. You know, if we bring it to light it makes us look like a bunch of jerks, but it's really really fun to see. I got a little file in my computer of like cool stuff I've actually done or been pulled into and I throw it in there from time to time. But yeah, that's pretty awesome. So I mean, when South Park makes fun of people, it's usually because I guess they asked to be on the show, and when you don't ask to be on the show, then they do cool stuff for you. So that's always pretty nice.
Speaker 1:That's the secret, evidently.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I'm like a dirtbag farmer. How do I make it on South Park? That's crazy.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I suspect I may know where you were gonna go with this answer, but we'll see if you surprise me. What's an underrated wine that people who are listening or watching this should go check out.
Speaker 2:Well, we talked about Grunos. I mean, there's a lot of like off. You know highway wines or off-ramp wines, like I could say Pino or Chardonnay, cab. You know the wines that you know to a certain extent, sourab, but not really, cause Sourab is so misunderstood. But you know, when you're driving down the highway and you're hungry, or if you're in the grocery store and you're thirsty or whatever, people tend to stick with the things they know.
Speaker 2:Right, I've heard of cab, I've heard of Pino, I've heard of Chardonnay. Those seem like safe bets, right, just like you're driving down the road and you see the, you know the king, the colonel or the crown. You're like, ah, pull off here, we'll get something to eat. And you just, and you order by number. Right, which is the printing press of things where, no matter what McDonald's you go to, a number two is a number two, right, for me it's always the things that are one block off the highway, right, the things that are hidden. You know a town over that you wouldn't usually stop at and for me that falls into, like Grenoche, grenoche Blanc. You know GSMs, Petit Verdeaux, like there are so many ones that are so good, but no, but people are kind of like I need to make a safe bet here. And so many people, if they can't try it, they're buying it based on label and being right here on a grocery store shelf, right at eye level, you know, grab, you, stick with the safe stuff. And safe isn't always better, but safe is safe and that's why, like you know, chardonnay is the wine you peaked in high school because it's still like 1970s oaky, buttery, creamy. You know, it's like barbecue sauce slapped on top of that stuff versus a Grenoche Blanc that you drink a glass of, that that tastes like you're biting into a Grenoche Blanc cluster.
Speaker 2:And there's a real beauty when you get into the things that are not the mainstream, you know, and for me I always find that with music, I find that with art, I find that with food, I find that with everything. Like a McDonald's hamburger is genetically manipulated to taste perfect, perfect amount of fat, perfect amount of sweetness, perfect amount of crunch, perfect amount of acid, perfect amount of fat. But is it the best hamburger in the world? No, no, there's 200 cows in there. You know it's formulated and a lot of wines typically are that right. But when you get to like the purity of, like a really great wine.
Speaker 2:That, like when we go out to make, our goal is to make the best possible wine we can from the grapes we made we grew this year. So next year it's gonna be different. The year after it's gonna be different and different, and different because the year is different. I'm different. You're a different person today than you were 10 years ago or even last year. Your kids are different, you know, and even if a granache is a granache is a granache like. Where did it? Was it grown, how? What was the area around it? Like what is grown around it.
Speaker 2:All of those things come into making the wine taste the way it does. Just like if you have your favorite band and you go hear them, right, tonight's show will be different than tomorrow's show. It just will be. You know, even if they play the same set list and the same order, everything, it's going to be a different show. The vibe, that thing that we don't really know what it is, but we can all feel it when it's happening right In sports you call it the zone at a party or a road trip or whatever. When the vibe is right and everything's kind of harmonizing, just right, it's so much better than anything you could have planned, and so that spontaneity, I think it's something that we really appreciate and we really focus on when we grow wines, because we want to grow the best possible thing from our own property, because everything we do is 100% of the state. So, to the case in point, I always think find estate wines right. Find producers who, like here, I am in my ramshackle office but I'm in the building with my name on it, right? So Sane Nez Valley and Santa Barbara County in particular, I'm always very like.
Speaker 2:I'm on the board of the Vittner's Association and one of the things I'm so proud of is that it's families, not corporations, and when you choose to support something, you're really voting with your money. Right, I want you to succeed and because of that I always say find the little guys that you really vibe with and support them with your money so they can do it again next year, because when you buy a bottle of wine from us, it doesn't go to, like private planes, jet fuel. It goes to tuition and shoes and life, and we serve a much deeper, glorious purpose, I think. Then just another asset on somebody who has a plane. They don't know how to fly in a boat, they don't know how to drive and they're living in a different life than I am. Because today I woke up and my boots got muddy, because that's the first place I went and vote for those guys with your money. I think that's corporations have enough. Let the little guy have a shot.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you definitely are fully committed to your vineyard and walking the vineyard with you last week was so obvious. You talked about you have different spots on the vineyard right and some of them get even more sunlight, some of them get more water, and you kind of were talking me through on your land, the different parts, and you made a comment to me about the worst grapes on your vineyard and I thought it was an insightful way you thought about it. What would you consider the worst grapes on your vineyard?
Speaker 2:The ones that are easy to grow, the low lying regions where all of the water, like if you look at that picture and go to our Instagram at Sarals and Sons I write way too much on there, like I talk way too much, but like if you think about this grape up here and then that grape down at the bottom on this hillside, if I water here it's going to, if I water at the top, it's going to run down the hill right. So the most stressed, the most. It's a very impactful fruit that we grow is hard to grow. It's up high. The water sheds off of it. It has to fight for every inch. It gets ripe in a beautiful way, you know, beyond the elements, and that's where always the best fruit is gonna be. It's higher up. It's hard to get to, it's a struggle, it's things that we can stress, you know, painfully, and it will throw off the best fruit, the best flavor, big seeds, thick skins, tons of color, because it is fighting for you know it's the parent vine, fighting for its life to provide for the kids. That's exactly what's happening on that vine and the ones down at the bottom is where all the water runs to. It's very easy to grow. When we start stressing it, it's like eh, I'll deal with that later.
Speaker 2:And typically that's not the best fruit, and so we are very, very vehement about making sure that even in the hardest places to grow, or even in the easiest places to grow, we absolutely withhold, and so that the fruit gets beautifully ripe. So everything we do, we're playing this. Really, our vineyard is amazingly dramatic. There's barely a straight row in the whole place and all of that stress, you know it finds its way to the bottle, because our goal in the vineyard is not to grow grapes. Our goal in the vineyard is the end product, is to grow wine. So everything we're doing is in service of that final piece, more than it is the actual fruit that we're growing today, because we'll do a lot of stuff that is not helpful to the vine, but it is very, very helpful to the end process of the wines that we're trying to produce.
Speaker 1:I love that. I think that's one of my favorite just overall analogies about winemaking that a lot of people don't realize. You know, when you're thinking of plants, you think you wanna give a plant the ideal conditions, right, give it the ideal amount of water, the ideal amount of sunlight and all of these, and often they make it easy on a plant. And yet winemaking is just the opposite. You know, you see these beautiful vines on extreme hills and all sorts of rocky terrain and terrible soil. Yeah, how good is that gonna make it? And that's what produces some of the world's most you know iconic wines and I love that when you explained that, and I think you do a good job of illustrating that in your own vines.
Speaker 2:Transform that to people, right? It's not the trust fund kid that everything's easy, that has that succeed or die mentality, right, it's the person that comes up. It's the rocky story, it's the come from nothing. Bust your butt, your whole life to create who you wanna become. You know everybody tries to make it easy on their kids, but you're probably doing them a grand disservice. You know what you should be doing is finding out the thing that is going to turn them on and flip that little switch in the back of their brain that turns them into just a monster. Right? That just like unleashes the fullest potential of yourself. You know that is always the thing that transforms anyone. You know the worst thing that ever happened to you is the worst thing that ever happened to you. Right, that's everybody.
Speaker 2:But if you really have gone through you know loss or someone dies, or you know, or your fruit gets turned away at a dock that was gonna make all your payments this year, or you know God puts you in a position where you're like I don't know what we're gonna do and your wife says I think you should do this, and then it's succeed or die. At that point, right, I always think about the burn the ships. Right, they land, there's a huge jungle in front of them, and then they burn the ships. And you go well, why would you possibly burn the ships? And the answer is because we're not going back on the ships, we're going back through there. And anyone, anybody, everyone spends time in the desert. Anybody of substance, you know, I know like, if we go into the biblical sense, it's always that right, you're always going to have the trial, the tribulation. There's the moment where you say here am I send me, in which I say every day, and then the next line of that is oh okay, now kiss the coals, right, put your lips on this coal. Something hot, something is going to burn. You have to. It's all just talk until you kiss the coals, and for us that's the everyday.
Speaker 2:You know, the fact that this turns into wine after all of the pain and struggle and the effort and the crying and throwing up is always just amazing to me, because we took pain and made it into something beautiful, which I think, if you're only putting your name on the bottle, you miss the point completely. Right? If you're not there for the entire struggle, if you're not there for the birth, all the way through, then you have really paid yourself into service, not only of wine, but you're making that's soul is commerce, right, you're making a product to sell and then, really, who cares? Right. But if you wrote the song and you hear your favorite song and you think about, like, the pain, the turmoil, the heartbreak that comes along with these, then all of a sudden you're like I've been there, I felt that right, and now that song becomes yours.
Speaker 2:And I think, with our customers, with our family, people know what it takes, they know what we've done to hang our butt on the line to make sure that this happens. And then, once it gets into a bottle, I get to put a picture of my kid on it, because if it wasn't for him, it wasn't for my daughter, if it wasn't for my wife, you know I'd pick something else to do. I'd be sitting there doing nothing. You know my favorite thing to do is nothing, but it really is. I love it. I love doing zero, but because of what we do in the life we chose, that's not really an option. You know there are gonna be things that explode today and break, and really tough decisions and lots of pruning and cutting a vine out or yanking it out and replanting, and you have to be swift and judgmental, and that is because what we're doing is growing wine, and if we're not judgmental and we're soft in the vineyard, then our wines will be soft. You know, we need to do the best possible thing we can.
Speaker 1:That's great. One of the questions I love asking people in the wine industry is what changes do you see coming in the wine world holistically in the future?
Speaker 2:Great question. My hope is nothing, because I see right now the wine industry chasing trends and I think that is a fool's errand. I think that in so many ways, if you're doing something because the masses are going that direction, or you're listening to experts, then you can get lost really quickly. I think that's one For me. It's like you know. I go back to our creed. A creed is something that's like fundamentally who you are. We're just gonna honor and prepare forever. That's what we're gonna do. That's gonna be us in the vineyard, it's gonna be us farming it, it's gonna be us picking it. I mean, when my mom, my wife, my daughter, my son are out there at two in the morning picking it, you can see where we value, what we value. Right, that is the effort we put in.
Speaker 2:Everybody laughs because, like during harvest, people are like, why do you post so many videos of you out in a tracker at 2 am? And my answer is kind of a joke, but it's true it's I go because no other winery can. They're not out there, they're not doing it. We are, they support us. So when you say, like, what is the trends? I don't know and I don't care, because let everybody else chase the monkey kind of a thing. And for us I can only grow the fruit that we grow on our property. I can't influence it more than what we do. I can't. I could plant other things, I guess, but that's not the best, the things that will grow best on our property. So I have to stay true. It's kind of like if you find anything you love, it could be your favorite band or director or whatever.
Speaker 2:When they start chasing things to please the most amount of people, it's kind of the circle Like. I always think that the stuff I love is within a circle and every company wants to have this core group right Of hardcore people. But when you start chasing things you start moving the circle and all of those people that got you to the party right, the circle moves outside of them into a new group and maybe it's a little bigger or whatever. But you've alienated the people that brought you to the party right. So my core like. When you were out in the vineyard you saw names on posts, right, little tags, and those are people that have bought wine from us for a long time and I know who. I work for them, so their name goes on a fence post. So when I go buy it, I go thank God for those people. Right, that's what we'll do and I don't think I'll chase a trend. I'll probably even more double down, like even now, doing these stupid tours on Saturday mornings, when you know no other wine makers like.
Speaker 2:I'll give you a free tour. Just show up, and we had 45 people the other day. Right, it's an hour and a half of my time. It's just me talking and showing you around, and come on over, I'll show you everything.
Speaker 2:I think more of that. Right, that's where we're going. You know, I'm not chasing some like low alcohol wine came about because restaurant tours got into wine and started making it and you didn't feel warm after one bottle so they could walk back over and the chef or the waiter goes, oh, would you guys like another bottle? And people go, yeah, let's get another bottle. And so they went from $100 bill for dinner to $150 bill for dinner and that's only good for the restaurant, that's only good for the waiter. So let's oh yeah, let's suppress alcohol levels because we want them to buy more.
Speaker 2:So it's like that's kind of disingenuous, you know, Because our fruit gets ripe at a certain point. We pick it when it's ripe and the alcohol is what the alcohol is. You know, it's like volume. I like the song, you can turn it up, the volume, you can turn it down, whatever. But don't do it because you can sell another bottle, right, it's like then you're just hacking people and my goal always is like make the best possible wine, because then alcohol is, you know, whatever. Who cares? Because if it's all balanced, you're not, it's not going to be scary. So in the wine, I'm not really in the wine industry. You know that's another weird way to put it. You know, I don't, I'm not, I like I don't care, I don't hang out with wine makers.
Speaker 1:I understand what you're saying, but yes, you are. But yes, I understand why you're saying what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're, you know. It's kind of like saying you know no effects or black flag or whatever punk band you, you like. So I love punk music. It's like are they really in the music industry? You know, no one's hating them, grammys? And no one's like, oh, my God, you know that kind of no one's doing that right and no one's showing up to hand me an award.
Speaker 2:It's like no, we're doing our own thing and we're perfectly happy doing it the way we are and not chasing some carrot or some rabbit or even advertising in magazines, cause, oh, the more you advertise, the higher your points get. It's like, oh, this is all garbage, right, yeah, we're. It's 2024, right. It's like we all know that this is all garbage. Like we all know it, right.
Speaker 2:It's like the TV, whatever's on in between the commercials, the commercials is what they're selling. What they put on in between those commercials is just to keep you there until the next commercial break. It's like we understand how this works, right, everybody's like on board now, like nobody's looking out for us and we're just being sold to. Sure, totally get it. But when you get to the smaller levels, then it's like, yeah, people are actually really being the thing they're going to say you know, it's why we should support. I always try to smort the like little guy. You know, the small artist, the person who's actually hasn't become jaded or anything. It's like my like. I only care about three groups in my life there's puppies, babies and little old ladies. That's it right, it's like that's all I care about.
Speaker 2:But yeah, but it's all I care about, right, Cause puppies and stuff are just like they just want to love you and they're not jaded and nothing bad's happened to them. Babies are like great judges of character. And then there's the most terrifying group of them all, which is little old ladies who still paint you know that create art, who have been through all of the most horrible things in life and yet have not been broken and still make quilts that are gorgeous, right, that still have beauty inside of them. They need to get out. It's like those are the most terrifying people on the planet, because everybody else is like and still on the game, and they're like mm. I'm just going to do what I want. I'm going to create art. Yeah, maybe my husband died, maybe this happened, maybe I had a loss here, or blah, blah, blah, but they still go out there and bake bread or make cookies for people or, you know, show up early to help out, and they still have that beautiful glow about them and you're like that is an unbreakable person. That person is terrifying Because when things go bad, they're still like here, let me fix your socks. You know, those are the people I care about. Everybody else in the middle. It's like they're all everybody's agenda-ish and trying to make their way along. But it's those purity people that I love.
Speaker 2:Like you know someone who writes a song that is just beautiful and you're like, oh, do you have an album? Do you have this? They're like no, I recorded it on my phone and then I just put it out to the internet because that's what we can all do now. You know, sarlas and Sons was started when we started 15 years ago. If we started 15 before that, I probably wouldn't have made it, you know, because it was a lot of gatekeeping and a lot of this. But I took it upon myself and say I'm gonna be our own advocate. We're gonna. I'm gonna be tenacious and relentless and I will show up every day and keep stacking these little rocks and push my little rock two inches. And now, like this, look at us. We're talking over the internet and we made a connection through friends and had you out, and now we're sharing our message with a lot of people and hopefully they find their way to us.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you're a big, huge corporation, you can't do that because you're muddled in meetings and top down and you're trying to get a promotion, so you're not gonna take a risk. You know it's the what. The iPhone's gonna be the iPhone forever, because to make a radical change will possibly turn off 50% of people who think everything's fine already. So there's never gonna be that massive jump to whatever could be the greatest next thing, because we're just gonna sell a billion more of them this year, and that's bread and butter. So why would we change it? You know, the big Mac could probably be delicious if they changed it, but hey, why change what is the bread and butter?
Speaker 1:you know so you lost me on that take. I don't know if I can go with you on there.
Speaker 2:No, I always kind of think about that. It's like when we also, when we start thinking about things like the like new Coke, remember that way back in the day, maybe not, but you know they took a big swing and, yeah, it took a miss hard, right, and they really did so they're, they are captured by their own culture, right?
Speaker 1:And when you're when you're number one, it's pretty hard to take a risk Totally.
Speaker 2:And then you play tight and everything else, and I think one of the greatest things that we've been able to do is by totally burning our whole company to the ground every year and just making lines that are just the expression of this year and then putting on. You know, whatever pictures make me cry. Is is the most freedom that you can have in this, and that that, to me, is the most important thing, because what you're going to get is the best version of what we can do this year. We're not mixing paint, trying to sell you whatever we sold out of last year. We're not. We're not just a die smashing off. You know this year's part we get to. We get to put our heart and soul into the vineyard and put our and then let that kind of personify itself through the whole wine making process. And so finally, when you get to something, it's, you know there's a lot of love and effort and I believe it to be as inspired as we possibly can be and that's the freedom people have given us by doing that.
Speaker 2:You know it's like Radiohead can put whatever album out they want next year and people are going to love it because they trust that band, and that's where I always wanted to be, like, just trust us, we're going to do the best we can for you. Okay, cool, it's like going to a restaurant. They're like let me cook for you, let me cook what we have for you and make you something that you're going to love. And that's where we we kind of lit. That's that's the moment that we're, that's the thing I think I'm most proud of with what we do.
Speaker 1:Love it All. Right on that note, keith. It's time for a jet break.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay. So here's a question what is the story when you think about the amazing part of wine, experiencing it? Not just the snooty part, but like you're in? You're in that moment with friends. Maybe it's at a restaurant, maybe it's at a dinner in the backyard, whatever, and you get that glass of wine and you go, wow, this is it. This is incredible. This is that moment. This is why I love it. What memory do you think of? You probably have lots. What is a memory of? Like a great moment, Everything, just stars align you and this is awesome.
Speaker 2:Um jeez, you know I drank very, very, very expensive wines Great wines with people I don't like, and I've also drank somebody's first wine they ever made with people I do so typically I only drink wines of people I like. That's kind of first and foremost because one of the one of the things that I have found is it's super contextual and I think that's something that you can really appreciate. There's everything that you're bringing to this moment that really shapes if you're going to love that wine or not. And, like you know, your grandma's lasagna recipe could be your favorite thing in the world because it was because they loved you and they made you something and they maybe let you participate in it Like a hug. And those are the wines I always constantly search out because I want the hug Right. There are really great wines that are very expensive and there's a lot of pomp and there's a lot of circumstances that come with them and once you take off the shine of oh this is a, this is a big deal kind of a thing, then that will also pull you in the wrong direction and be like can you just drink that without all of that around it and is it good or not? And usually in those wines I like, I go back to it later and then try it or save a little or something.
Speaker 2:So some of my favorite wines I've ever drank were, you know, sitting on the back of a tailgate on a truck and drinking out of just you know a cup that you had leftover from lunch, and it's true, you know, and popping those and going oh, holy cow. You know, that's always kind of the moment for me. It's the people that hang out after the party and you open the good bottle for them, or it's people that have put their heart and soul into something. Yeah, I can't wait to try that, you know. But when it's some dinner I didn't want to go to people I didn't want to be there with, and some great bottle comes out and all the pomp and circumstance comes with it, and usually I don't like it and I will never say it, but it's like there.
Speaker 2:I would rather be sitting on a tailgate with someone I liked and I always think that that's kind of our end goal with any of the wines we make. It's like drinking with people you love. I just that's. I say that almost every time on, you know, our wine club videos or any of the stuff that we really push out there. It's like don't drink this with someone you love, because then then we're good. If you're going to use it for posturing, then it's like you know, buy something else. So those are always the best ones. You know the cozy nights? Yeah, pop our bottle.
Speaker 1:Tailgate. I love it. Okay, you had a hot take on John chapter two. Oh yeah, that I had never heard before. And, Keith, I have a master's degree in theology. I'm a second generation preacher's kid. I've been around. I've been around these stories for a bit and John two in my current, you know, line of work is a go to. I, you know, can do a sermon on John two off the cuff.
Speaker 2:If you like drinking wine and you're a minister, everybody's gonna end up.
Speaker 1:John two. For listeners that are going, what he's talking about, this is the first miracle. Jesus turns water into wine. Yeah, keith and I were talking about it last week and he just casually threw in one of his theories that I was like, keith, I've literally never heard that. So I want, I want the Cabernet and pray audience to get this hot take on John two. What's your theory, keith? I don't think it's that hot.
Speaker 2:No, honesty, I've, well, I've been rereading the Bible. That's something I wanted to do and I, you know, go back to pomp and circumstance, a little bit like that, and no offense to any, any pastors, you know but there is, there is a, there is a bit of a show with it that comes along with it, and there's also you want to be an engaging and dynamic speaker and all of that stuff. And I go back to, you know, water into wine, right, like I was little kids at an invocation Bible school or whatever, and there's a big green felt board and and they're like, oh, and then Mother Mary, who was always wearing blue and white, and then Jesus, who was here, and then he did this thing, and it kind of moves around, right, but when I I'm trying to read the Bible and not some Renaissance painting like way or Shakespearean way, because when I think of the, the disciples, the disciples are people I really would have I hang out with, you know it's. It's bikers and and guys who cuss and probably would be if it was here today, would be, you know, tatted to the gills and talking trash most of the time and punching each other and hanging out with hookers and drug addicts and all that stuff that usually isn't, does it throw their doors open? And churches don't usually throw their doors open and say come on in, you guys seem like nice boys, right?
Speaker 2:So I've changed the way I read the Bible and I bring it down to how I think it would have gone. And so when I go to the water and the wine number one, it's first miracle, which I love. Number two it was a seven day party. Is that correct? Check me on this one. Actually, they're at a multi day party where they invited everybody. Somebody's getting married, they are going hard right, and we've had my brother's reception up here. We we were out of wine within an hour and 15 minutes and my mom said we're out of wine.
Speaker 2:And this is totally true, and literally me and two of my buddies a wad of cash and said we need more booze. And we went to the store and filled up a grocery cart full of wine. Adam Firestone was there and said what are you boys doing? And he were like we're buying wine. And he goes this is before we end up with the winery or whatever. And he goes you don't want that, you want Firestone wine. And started throwing his own wine in there. I love them for that. That's such a salesman. But we got back.
Speaker 2:Right Now I go into number one. I'm going to start with my sister. She was at the grocery cart for a couple of days. She was parting, she was having a good time. She and her main concern that she goes to her son with is we're out of booze. And he's like what? And she's like do the thing. And from my opinion, when she says, do you know, do something about this, I mean she's like I don't want this party to stop. You know I feel bad for every Catholic in the world right now, but it's like no, this is a mom who's like this party is almost over. The vibe is getting wrecked. You have got to do something. You need to do it now. Dude, the party is almost over. I'm going to start with my sister.
Speaker 2:I'm going to start with my sister. I'm going to start with my sister. I'm going to start with my sister. It's almost over. The vibe is getting wrecked. You have got to do something. You need to do it now. Do the thing, because that was 100%.
Speaker 2:Jesus came home on a day, another day, and his mom, you know, she's sitting there like this other hand. She's like what's wrong. He had a bad day, you know, just like, oh, this and this. He's like, oh, it's cool, you know. And then glass of wine for his mom. God bless him, right. So she comes up and goes do the thing. And he goes no, no, no, I can't do it, it's not my time. You know I'm not ready. I don't want people to know.
Speaker 2:It's like Superman going hey, I'm going to fly, and he's like no, no, no, no, no. She's like do the thing. So she turns away from him and says get him whatever he needs. He's going to do the thing. He's going to do the thing, walks away, he makes wine, he does time travel. He turns this into that. That usually takes years and years, doesn't in an instant. There is some sort of scientific way that he did that in such a beautiful way, because I believe God is the God of law and not magic, even though magic, if technologically is sufficiently advanced, it's indistinguishable from magic. Totally understand this. This is 2,000 years ago.
Speaker 2:He does a thing, he does nothing and makes all of this wine for all of these people. He keeps the party going, which is absolutely awesome. What a guy. And they come back and go oh, you saved the best stuff for last. This is amazing. This is so great. Oh my gosh. Jesus kept the party going and I love the fact that he did it because his mom made him, and if I could do that, that's exactly how this would have gone. My mom would be like we're out of booze, you got to do something. You can't have this party shut down, we've got to go. And he's like all right, and he does the thing. So, yeah, I think everybody's very reliable like normal people.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. It's not this oh, everything isn't Monty Python. You know what I mean. It's not. You know, if you think about God and God is floating on a cloud and reaching out a finger, that's just a Renaissance painting. That isn't what God is, even though that is our interpretation because of art and everything else. But if we think about God like that, where it's such a you know what an ego, we have to think that that is how it is. You know, christ, what we're really talking about is the total embodiment of God and mind and understanding how everything works, because they are the creator. Right that, like I say to pastors all the time, I think Christianity has horrible marketing issue. They're like what do you mean? I go, dude, I work, I worship the transdimensional being that created all things. You know that's totally different than a Renaissance painting and because of that, my God is limitless, right? It's like, yeah, then Jesus died and he came back. Yeah, of course. Why? Because he wrote the code. He can do whatever he wants.
Speaker 2:It becomes so much more meaningful when it's not the superhero story or even like this self-help Jesus, when you start reading through you know Old Testament, which not a lot of people do. I mean, there is some crazy stuff in there and as you kind of progress through it, then you're like, well, why did you even have to send God back? Why did he have to come in this form? Why did he have to die? Why did he have to experience all this stuff? And then when you start thinking about that from a realistic point of view, it makes it all like, oh, now I get it. You know, we could go into another full hour, just that little crazy aspect of it. But it makes you know.
Speaker 2:I always think that the road you know, all roads lead to God, like, if you're talking about, like any spirituality yes, because I know people that have had impactful spiritual transformation in Buddhism or any of these other religions but it is that vacuum of God, you know, calling us up the mountain. But you know, all roads lead to God. But one has a finished bridge, you know, and is built by a carpenter, that's it. And Christ made the bar so low because he has empathy, he realizes how garbage it is to be a human being, how crappy this is. I mean, it is absolutely garbage to be a human. If you could reside outside of all of this. You're the creator and you stuffed yourself into this meat sack that gets hungry and angry and grumpy and, you know, hangry or whatever.
Speaker 2:Then God made the road to redemption so low that all you have to do do you believe in the Son of God? Yes, you're in, that's it. It's not stacking rocks, it's not doing anything heavy, it's just. Do you believe this one minor, this one thing? Yeah, you're in. That is the greatest gift that a creator could give any possible person. You know, it's just like yes, it sucks to be you. I totally get it. All you have to do is this it's a crack on the ground and walk across it. You're in. It's pretty amazing. Oh, that got deep and off the rails real quick. There you go.
Speaker 1:So to go back, Keith's premise is that Jesus often turned water into wine. This was not all wine, it was a miracle. I enjoyed that. Take on it. So when I teach that again, I'll have to probably throw that out there.
Speaker 2:You can cut the rest of that out.
Speaker 1:Feel free. How many times had he done this? I just think that's a fascinating thing to think about. How many times? Ok, so we're doing a couple of rapid fire questions. What is something that's blowing your mind right now? In what regard? Anything In any regard. You just start thinking about it like that's crazy.
Speaker 2:I have a. I mean, I could get real wild. But the thing I think about daily is that we, as as people, have traded happiness for satisfaction, and it was the stupidest thing we've ever done. And you know, case in point, like I remember growing up and going to a record store in this year and this kind of date me, of course, but going to a record store and finding some album or a CD or tape or whatever, and bringing it home or listening to it there and going, oh, what is this? Right? And finding something that became mine, you know, go to Blockbuster. I can't believe they had it. I'm so stoked.
Speaker 2:And what I have come to realize is that we, you know, now I can turn on Netflix or any streaming service or any, you know, spotify or there's every. Everybody has 50 different streaming things, right, and they're like this is what you want, you pay, no problem, and they just poured a trough full of all of it, right, and you can go and listen to any song you want, whenever you want. And that is happiness to me, right, I can, I can you tell me a band and I go, and within five seconds I have it. And they gave it to us. And what we traded was satisfaction for happiness. And you know, you can eat ruffles, chips, and they said, but you can't eat just once. And the answer is probably not, because it is formulated perfection and I want, I will eat that stuff, and that little switch in my brain of satiation gets bypassed and I just keep eating it and I'm become a fat mess and I'm like, yeah, you're right, I couldn't eat just one versus the satisfaction of doing hard things, of earning your place. You know, when I grew up, I did lots of weird super sports and you kind of had to earn your spot in the lineup, if you will in anything.
Speaker 2:And if you just came in and you're like, hey, I'm a this, now there would be a whole bunch of people that have worked really, really hard. And then when you come in and you just declare something, they're going to smack you out quick and put you in your place. Right, it's like you're going to get thumped quick or you're going to get barred or shoved to the side or, you know, get beaten up, whatever. And now no one calls you on it. Right, it's, anybody can write whatever they want online and they're not really worried about somebody showing up and punching them in the face. Those consequences, I think, are important, because if not, then anybody is whatever they say they are, even if they put no effort into doing it, and they can stand right next to people who have put in the effort and they're like yeah, I'm totally justified in being here.
Speaker 2:So the goal of when I came in and I was like I'm going to get beaten up, and so the goal of when I hear people say I just want to be happy, right To me that that's. It is such a the wrong road to be chasing. And you know, a few years ago I figured that out in my own life and said I don't ever want to be happy again. Right, I want to be satisfied, I want to be satisfied. I want to be satisfied, I want to be satisfied. I want to be pretty bent on chasing that down with everything that I do.
Speaker 2:You know, I asked myself, like in that old man voice it's always my dad's like well, are you happy with that? You know, are you satisfied with what you've done today? And I have to be brutally honest. And if I'm not, then I keep going. And then there's some days where I'm like yeah, I'm really satisfied with that and I'm like, okay, I'm happy that it's working so well. And I'm like I'm I'm really happy with what it is. And then I'm like I'm really happy, I'm very happy, I'm pretty happy that it's working, I'm so happy that I'm starting to get the way that I am. But sometimes it's just, you know, just growing a field full of hay right now is just bringing me the most joy of anything, because I drive by it every day and I see it getting longer and it makes me happy and I know I'm going to be able to harvest that and put it in a barn and feed cows next year, that in the barn, so that I could provide for the next level. And so I'm just trying to figure that out in all the aspects of my life and try to be real consistent and really honest.
Speaker 2:And, as my wife says, I'm the vulnerable narcissist, because I'm doing things that make me feel very, very vulnerable, like this, putting myself out there in a very honest way. And then the narcissist part is like, yeah, I think I can do it. So I show up and make it happen. So it's this constant struggle between those two things and my goal is always to get to this level of I'm satisfied or I'm pleased versus happy, because happy is drunkenness. You drink too much and you go past the oh, this was good and I enjoyed this, and blah, blah, blah, and then it will wear off and you'll have a headache and to so to stay in that nice cut the whole way. So at the end of it you're like man, that was a great decision, that was an awesome night.
Speaker 2:Because typically I'll show you how to overdo anything. I'm pretty good at all of it. It's like how fast is your car go? Let's find out. I'm horrific at that stuff. But not making a fool out of yourself at the end of the party hey, great job. Keeping it between the lines, way to go. It's like doing these little repetitious things over the course of long periods to see the result and then to have other people see in you that result as well, where they're like no, no, no, he's got a great track record, he's done the right stuff. He might be loud and say some crazy stuff here and there, but he's got a good heart and he's doing the right stuff and that pays off over the long term in my opinion. So yeah, I would say, giving up happiness and striving for satisfaction. That's been something I've been thinking about a lot lately.
Speaker 1:That's good. What's the problem that you're trying to solve right now?
Speaker 2:Generational wealth. It's really on the top of my mind because I'm really proud of everyone in my family. We lost my dad about three, four years ago and his last thing he said to my brother and I is don't be selfish. And we kind of came up with this thing where it's like post-traumatic ascension. That's what we wanted to have happen. Where he wanted his life, he did the dumbest thing that I've ever heard. I'm still mad at him for it. But he said to his pastor I want God to use my life. And when his pastor said that to me I wanted to punch him, because those are the words that you are calling down and God will do it. I say here am I send me. I like that a lot better than I want God to use my life, because God did. You know, god took him and what he left was the rest of us that now banded together and in everything that we do we want to honor and prepare, and that was something that we had before that. But now it's even more important to me where I want to see the attributes that I appreciated in my father come screaming out of my kids. I want to be better. I want to have people look at me and say he had a great dad. I want to make his name better by the life I'm living. I want my kids to live up to that. I want my nieces and nephews and everybody to know how much they're loved and our family became. We were close before and now. It's just unbelievable.
Speaker 2:And last night my mom who splits time between here and Texas because that's where my brother lives she had my daughter, who's going to Texas Christian University, where my brother coaches, and a bunch of sorority girls were over at my mom's house and she made them cookies and bread and they had a great dinner and they watched television and my nieces were over there and they were all doing it together and took a picture and I'm like this is this? This is what everyone strives for. I know people that have billions of dollars and they don't have that. You can't buy that. You buy that by showing up every day and loving your kids and having them want to be around you when they're 40. And I'm concerned with my dad's legacy and so is my brother and we're nobody.
Speaker 2:The Saros name is not a big name. We work hard to achieve things, but there's no big cachet that comes with it. It is all stack and rocks every day, and I want the things that my father taught me and my mother taught me when they were teaching me. What they didn't realize is they were also teaching my kids when they were tough on me when I was a kid. That's paying off now with my kids, and what I teach my son and my daughter now is what they will teach their children.
Speaker 2:And so when you think of generational wealth, it has very little to do with money, very little if anything. It is our unit needs to remain strong. Our convictions need to remain strong. We can openly debate, we can challenge each other. We can say I think you're wrong because of this, and the whole point should be let's get it all out in the open so that there's nothing is hit and let's really discuss why you feel that way, because I'd rather be known as a hypocrite than somebody like stuck to him, because this is what I believe, right? There's no honor in that. More information is more data.
Speaker 2:More data is better decisions and over the course of anyone's lifetime, more information, more data, more unique people, more people that aren't like you, more people that have different lifestyles, more people that believe different things. If we can all be honorable and respectful to each other, there's so much you can learn from so many different people. Because you wanna be invited into that world, you don't say, oh, I don't like that because of this, and then it's like, well, you shut the door. So the generational wealth I really am about is I want my kids to know what their code is. I want them to be the people that stood up for kids in elementary school, that those kids still remember that cash got in a fight for me when we were in third grade because cash was doing the right thing and there was a bully, and so when they're in high school, they're like cash is the G.
Speaker 2:You know that's what I want for every single person in my family. You know I blow them up on Instagram all the time. I write pages because it's like this is what's important about this person. This is what I see. Let me throw flowers at you before you're gone, but everybody know what this person is about and when I look at you, this is what I see. Like I see my mom, you know she would whup me when I was a kid and I deserved it, right, and I could just be like, oh, my mom's a jerk, but it's like no. Now I see all of the things that she did over the course of 47 years for me and my entire family that I'm like wow, I got one of the greatest moms in the world. My dad, same way my brother. I couldn't be more proud of my sister-in-law. You know her kids on both sides, right Like my mother and father-in-law, are unbelievable people. There's so much to learn from them.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing I want to have progress. I want to. That's the whole point of this honor prepared. It's like I want to honor the people that left the little path through the grass and then I came through and I'm trying to spread it and make it a road and hopefully the kids after me are laying asphalt and that generational piece happens more and more and more and more. Because that's what, if anything, if our name means anything, I wanted to mean that I wanted to be. We were together, we're doing things together, we're pushing the rock forward together. I'm not here for me, I'm here to honor and prepare and that is the job, and if we all continue to do that, then we're living selflessly or not selfish. We're doing things that are honest, because one of the greatest travesties I think is the world is some people and I think what makes so many people so sad is not letting it out to say, oh, I think I could have been or I think I should have done this, but I didn't want to get up there.
Speaker 2:It's kind of that mindset of like you think you can sing pretty well, but you never stood in front of your class and belted it out right. So many people have that trapped inside them. They just never let it out. They just never let it the monster the world needs out of you, out. And what a waste. You know everybody's got a beast and it's like I thought I had to keep it in and then making peace with your demons and letting that beast out of you. It's probably the most freeing thing you could possibly do. I'm like you know, I suck. I'd fall in my face all the time. I'll probably fall in my face later today and I've done so three times earlier. You know I did so over the course of this recording.
Speaker 2:You know, said stuff that's pretty wild and outside the box and everything else, and there might be people that are like this guy's an idiot, but the truth of it is it's like there's a part of that could be true. You know, I try to think of things and like, if you're presenting it this way, that's what's in the box. It's like let's tear apart the box and see how possibly this could have been, because that to me always seems like it's way more inviting to have. You know, go back to the water and the wine. I think Mary's a lot cooler If she said to her son you gotta do the thing, get out of his way. He's gonna do the thing. You know she already had pre-knowledge of it. It seems way like I wanna hang out with him. You know, it's true. Like I love the fact that, like you go to the disciples. It's like who did it? Who picked up the? When they came to take Jesus, picked up as grab the sword and cut off the guard's ear.
Speaker 1:Peter.
Speaker 2:What a gangster. I mean that's like grabbing a cop's gun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you remind me of Peter a little bit. I could see you and Peter having a good time.
Speaker 2:We definitely could have go out and have a good time, yeah, but you know what I mean? It's like everybody white washes these not white. You know. It's just like, oh, stained glass and stuff like that. You're like dude, I know a bunch of Peters, you know Like Peter's been in a couple of jails, you know. And yet we're like, put on your Sunday best and don't say what you think and this and that. You're like dude, these guys are running around like maniacs. It's like they cut off the cops' ears.
Speaker 1:If someone is watching or listening to this podcast, they're probably not super prim and proper, so they may be able to handle you more than maybe another podcast. Well, that's good, so you're okay.
Speaker 2:All right, the maniac winemakers are great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what is something you're excited about right now?
Speaker 2:What am I excited about? Well, I got a couple few I can't talk about. It's pretty fun. I've been tapped to make some pretty cool things for some things that really hit home for me, so that's really neat. What am I excited about? At the smallest level, I'm excited about being cozy later tonight. That's number one, where it's like cozy is my favorite thing. Dude, light a fire, have a good meal, are you guys right now, by the way? No, it's beautiful outside, it's gorgeous.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'm like getting messages to her. Like you know, ever since you left Santa Barbara, it's been flooded. I'm like what's going on over there?
Speaker 2:I'll call people who live there. They'll tell you and like, yeah, there's a lot of water places, but it's not a flood. You know what's? What am I excited about? I would always say I'm excited about the things we've done and I'm always anxious about the future. I'm excited, you know, I don't know. I don't really have a great answer of what I'm excited about, because usually life comes like like right up to me and then it's like, oh, we've got to make this happen, kind of a stuff. So I rarely plan anything more than like two days out ever, and it's a lot of spontaneity. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, we got to go do this thing Because I don't know what's going to be the boss today and something will take that away.
Speaker 2:I do like F one season starting. I know that's insane, but kind of me and my son have gotten into that. We like that very bizarre thing we love, we like cars and we like racing and we like, more than anything, stuff that's like oh, did you see this? I think my five. I'm probably not going to get away with this, but my five favorite words in the world are holy shit, check this out. Those are my five favorite words and you don't hear them a lot lately, so anything that has those those five words involved in it is probably my most exciting thing. Like pretty good formula yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause, like I have, I got texts from like friends today and they're like, dude, look what I'm working on. And they just like, painted a bunch of tanks for a race team that's going to go out and do Daytona motorcycles. And I'm like, too, that's awesome, I love it. I got other friends that are, you know, building stuff. I, you know, all my friends are incredibly hard to love people, which is probably why I love them, because they don't really fit any mold or corporate strategy or anything like that, and we'll pretty much tell you exactly what they think at any given time. But I love seeing the stuff they're coming up with because it's it's so unique and so one off and so special and I know they put their heart and souls into that. So I usually get pretty amped on whatever they're doing.
Speaker 2:So I had to go out to Texas watch some TCU baseball. I'm really, you know, since my dad passed away, my, my brother's the head coach there and I promised him I'd watch every game, and so this is now my third season of doing that and he has really, really sucked me into the game within the game, within the game, and I'm really, really I'm incredibly proud of him. What else Driving fast. I like doing that. I don't do it very often because that's a bad idea and kind of the last thing. I'm excited I just got all my labels done for 2025. So we're getting ready to bottle and do that and I'm really pleased with them.
Speaker 2:So you know, I know I get to live a very extraordinary life. I know this, right, I really do, and I know that it's a very special thing to do and I know that it's special because I kind of get to do it on my own terms. The life that I've been blessed with, that I have built through constant work, I'm really, I'm always excited to see people succeed. I love living where I live because it feels very small and I can, you know, walk in and have a conversation with pretty much anyone and it'll be meaningful. And, yeah, I'm terrified of tomorrow because something bad will happen, but I like making it to the end of every day. So it's not a grandiose thing, but certainly do like it. That's great Long answer to a very short question, sorry. What else you got? What?
Speaker 2:was your here. Let me flip the script. So you got to come out right. You got to live a morning in my life. You know it was a special morning because I had a guest, of course, and it wasn't like a lot of the other busy stuff that usually you know bolt turning and stuff like that. I want to hear what your impression was of us and what we like your time with us. I mean, flip the script, let me hear it.
Speaker 1:No, I thought I, you know we talked a little bit about this. I think it's interesting that you farm first. You know most people in the wine industry that I talked to you know, put a lot of emphasis on the wine making part and what they're doing there and how they're aging it and blending it and what they're doing to it. You definitely put the focus, the emphasis, on the growing of the grapes and you know that part of it, and so I thought that was interesting. I think the way you view your family is is really interesting and, you know, I would almost say, unusual. I don't think most families operate like that. You know where they're. You seem very connected to everybody you know in your family and that's you know. That's unusual.
Speaker 1:I think it's cool to listen to your you know. You explain it in your creed of the honor and prepare and totally make sense when you see how you guys do it. I think you have the coolest labels of any winery I've ever seen. To be perfectly honest with you, I love the fact that you replace them every year. I also love, you know you talk about taking the snooty part out of wine. There's something so simple you do here that I actually think, like I was thinking about this the other day. I was like, why doesn't everybody do this? But on the back of your bottles, you have the one I'm looking at right here so it has the year 2021, it says picked by the family, then 2023, put to bottle, then it says 2023 to 2043, enjoy.
Speaker 1:And you know, everybody always asks like, well, you know, is this a bottle like an age, or how long can I age it? You guys just put it right in the bottle, though, which I think is awesome. You know, for someone who may not understand, like all right, this is a granache, is a granache super ageable wine or not? You know, like you put it right on the bottle there, and I think that's super cool. I also love, you know, all the photography you know we've talked about this that you guys put into each of your labels. I think it's kind of crazy that you redo the label every year, like, again, I was Well, the wine's different. Sure, that's true, that's true with most wineries, and they don't, you know, they don't change label, you just have the year effort it's.
Speaker 2:but here's the thing it's like totally but this is labels is like birthing a baby. You know it's a nightmare.
Speaker 1:I hate it, but you know, I think, like most, most other wineries I know of you know, you go what's the difference between this one and that one? And you look at the year number right, like, oh, that's the 2000 vintage versus the 21 vintage, and like, oh, 2000, this half. You know. So, like, a lot of those things you notice. So, yeah, I think you guys got a cool thing going.
Speaker 1:I was super is my first time to Santa Barbara and then Santa Anais and that area. I was expecting it to be beautiful, based on everything I'd ever heard, and I would say you exceeded it. The, the terrain, the terroir was all better than I thought and the wines were better than I thought and I've had some wines there and I wouldn't say they were bad by any means, but hadn't really like, grabbed my attention. But really, you know, everybody, everyone out here at least, always thinks of like, if you're California, it's Napa, right, it's like Napa wines. And I think you know, don't sleep on Santa Anais Valley, like that whole region 2022 wine region of the year that was cool Things going and it's super cool Certified bangers.
Speaker 1:They are. So if someone wants to check you out, we've got two places sarlosandsonscom is the website right, they can see all of it and then on Instagram I should update it.
Speaker 2:I should update it soon, because I'm the website too.
Speaker 1:On IG. It's sarlos and Sons and you are, like you know, writing poetry on there every day and doing little video video vlogs that are super engaging. So if anyone's listening to this, watching this, they're like this guy's nuts. I like him. How do we, how do we connect more? Maybe you want to try Santa Anais wines and you're like I don't know this region, I'm not really trying to this. It really is an incredible, unique region from a weather point of view, a terrain point of view, and what these guys are doing is super cool. And, like he said earlier, I do love supporting, you know, the little guy. The little guy, that's not a huge chain that each time you get the wines, it's it's what those vineyards produce that year. It's not, you know, it's not a formula that they're trying to hit. I think that's super cool.
Speaker 2:The one, one last thing, one last thing, the one thing we didn't talk about that I was. I was thinking about it today and I remiss if we didn't. I always going back to the biblical perspective on what we do. The one thing that I am constantly blown away by is number one. There's more references to wine in the bottle in the Bible than there is water. That blows me away to when. When they talk about when Christ's like I'm the vineyard keeper and this and that, and you know, if you don't produce grapefruit, turn it like. I live that every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the one thing that I really identify with, or the one kind of takeaway, and this is you know, I've been on a few podcasts, but this is the one I can actually say this on is that, in the same way that when we are farming wine because we're not really farming grapes, we're farming wine. I have I've never heard anybody talk about this mindset, and maybe it had to be from a winemaker or farmer is that our only concern with the grapes we grow is the wine it will become, and I think that, from a biblical perspective, the physical form of growing a grape is one thing. Like we're all trapped in the grape right now, right. And then when we bring it to the winery, we get to release its soul, right. We get to press it, we get to crush it, and for me, there's always this one beautiful day where we go through all the fermentation and we take the grapes, basically we pump off all the liquid, but then there's still, you know, the grape skins, the seeds, everything that's still in there, and we bring it out, we put it into a press and we squeeze all of that out, and so then we only have the juice and we take all of the skins and everything else and we just throw it into a field and we basically abandon it because that has fulfilled its purpose.
Speaker 2:And one of the things that I have thought about recently and a lot, and this feels like a perfect place to be able to talk about it is that I have come to the real rationalization that God is only concerned with our soul. You know all of that stress that we talk about with creating a grape wine. It comes from stress, it comes from withholding, it comes from putting us in difficult situations that gives us an opportunity to stretch ourselves and become greater. And in reading certain things lately, you know God does not pick. God picks stutterers to speak, and God picks people that aren't the right person constantly and then makes them the right person. And to me, that progression has become so personified as of late, especially in the industry that I'm in, right, it's like God is concerned with your soul.
Speaker 2:Everything else that we're doing now in these meat puppets, you know, is one thing, but inside of us there is something incredibly special that God has put there that is different than anything else, and that is the thing he wants back. And for me, even this last year in harvest, you know, throwing away the skins that we worked so hard on for a whole year so that the soul can continue, has become a parable to me that I have deeply resonated with. And I think that when you're tasting wine, you rarely do people ever think about it being a grape. You know it's about what's in the glass. And for me that my soul has become very important to me. And the last, I think even few years, when my dad said I hope God uses my life, I've had to think of like, well then, how can I, how can I, how can I make his life better, having him, having lived it and what he put into me and the effort that he put into me and the love and the care and everything else, and I know my brother's done the same thing with his team and his family that I am concerned with my soul and the wine that goes in the glass when this is all over and the skin is thrown into the dirt. You know, I just don't. I don't know why. That popped in my head at kind of the end of this thing, but this seems like the perfect place to talk about that.
Speaker 2:And I, number one, I really appreciate you making the effort to come out and see what we do every day and really put your fingers in the mud and, and you know, taste the fruits of our labor if you will. But I think what you're doing is really important and you know we have a shirt that says Jesus drank wine is mostly a joke, because I had one friend that's like I'm like, hey, man, I want, why don't you have some wine? He's like I don't drink and I'm like, well, why not? He's like I don't think it's right. I'm like, see, you think you're better than Jesus.
Speaker 2:Jesus drank wine. You're not kind of joking around and I think the more we humanize our spirituality and trying to find that level of like. Oh, this makes sense to me. No, that's kind of why I brought up the the skins to wine, you know, you know, god is concerned with our soul and that should be our main concern as well, and I, I, I said yes to this podcast pretty much because of that. So thank you so much for having me on. I really appreciate it. Okay, seriously, I appreciate your time.
Speaker 1:Both last week, you mean you literally dropped what you were doing and toured me around everything and answered all my questions that peppered at you and, you know, showed me all the cool things you guys are doing. But it really is cool. I mean you are, in a lot of ways, an ideal guest, you know, because you you blend the two worlds. That that we do on this podcast, right where we want to have meaningful conversations about life and Jesus, and we use wine as kind of the vehicle to do that and and you're doing that in really cool ways, and so I love getting the chance to introduce you to our audience and hopefully they resonate with this conversation and you get some, you know, new members of your family and you're not wine club as you, as you call it, you know wine clubs are dumb.
Speaker 1:He has a wine club. He just doesn't call it a wine club.
Speaker 2:No, it's a family. It's great.
Speaker 1:You know, everybody wants to be a part of his wine club, but they don't call it a wine club. But yeah, if you resonate with this, you got to check out these wines. I'm telling you they're incredible. I'm looking forward to to enjoying the other bottles I got as well. Keith dude, thank you, we did it in under three hours it could be done.
Speaker 2:Keep going, hey, man.
Speaker 1:I think this is going to be the record of the longest podcast we've done so far, so you know, I've heard that before once or twice. That's pretty good, you did it. Yeah, I think you're the longest one we've done yet the final product those people who are watching listening will be able to verify once once we see the time stamp. But seriously appreciate all your time, appreciate what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Love it. Thank you again for being on the podcast. Thank you, I appreciate it Everybody. Hopefully you enjoyed this wild ride. This is a this is a cool area of the wine world, very close to home for a lot of us in California. You can check these, these wines out, saralas and Sons just very cool what they're doing and hopefully you've got a chance to hear from Keith his story and we'd love for you to check them out and support what they're doing. We will catch you all on the next episode of Cabernet and Prey. Thanks, friends, cheers.