Cabernet and Pray Episode 18 with Nate Ross and Jeremy Jernigan
Check out the podcast at: https://communionwineco.com/podcast/
There's something magical about reconnecting with an old friend who’s walked a similar path, and that's exactly what unfolds when Nate Ross joins me for a soul-stirring exploration of faith, parenting, and personal growth. As fellow pastor's sons turned pastors, we traverse the memories of our past, from Nate's transformative years in the Midwest to his meaningful ministry in Indiana, and onto his latest venture, Moments to Movements. Grab a glass of wine and settle in as we celebrate the wisdom of our mentors, the lessons learned, and the pivotal changes that have shaped our lives.
Our conversation doesn't shy away from the nuanced shifts in our faith journeys over the last decade, which have moved from a drive for tireless effort to a grace-filled embrace of the faithfulness of Jesus. The past years, especially those marked by the pandemic, have peeled back the curtain on the sometimes-dissonant relationship between hard work and expected outcomes. The vulnerability in our chat reveals the pressures of performing in a faith culture and the liberating realization that embracing one’s unique calling is a path to true freedom and authenticity.
Navigating the modern parenting challenges, we share from the trenches, addressing how we impart values and faith in a world vastly different from the one we grew up in. The omnipresence of technology and its impact on our children's lives is a conversation we tackle head-on, offering candid thoughts on managing digital engagement while fostering personal development. Our heart-to-heart is a tapestry of leadership, faith, and the quest for genuine community, inviting listeners to reflect on their own paths and discover the beauty in life's transitions.
Wines we enjoyed in this episode:
See audio and video episodes at: https://communionwineco.com/podcast/
Find out more at: https://linktr.ee/communionwineco
Cabernet and Pray Episode 18 with Nate Ross and Jeremy Jernigan
Check out the podcast at: https://communionwineco.com/podcast/
There's something magical about reconnecting with an old friend who’s walked a similar path, and that's exactly what unfolds when Nate Ross joins me for a soul-stirring exploration of faith, parenting, and personal growth. As fellow pastor's sons turned pastors, we traverse the memories of our past, from Nate's transformative years in the Midwest to his meaningful ministry in Indiana, and onto his latest venture, Moments to Movements. Grab a glass of wine and settle in as we celebrate the wisdom of our mentors, the lessons learned, and the pivotal changes that have shaped our lives.
Our conversation doesn't shy away from the nuanced shifts in our faith journeys over the last decade, which have moved from a drive for tireless effort to a grace-filled embrace of the faithfulness of Jesus. The past years, especially those marked by the pandemic, have peeled back the curtain on the sometimes-dissonant relationship between hard work and expected outcomes. The vulnerability in our chat reveals the pressures of performing in a faith culture and the liberating realization that embracing one’s unique calling is a path to true freedom and authenticity.
Navigating the modern parenting challenges, we share from the trenches, addressing how we impart values and faith in a world vastly different from the one we grew up in. The omnipresence of technology and its impact on our children's lives is a conversation we tackle head-on, offering candid thoughts on managing digital engagement while fostering personal development. Our heart-to-heart is a tapestry of leadership, faith, and the quest for genuine community, inviting listeners to reflect on their own paths and discover the beauty in life's transitions.
Wines we enjoyed in this episode:
See audio and video episodes at: https://communionwineco.com/podcast/
Find out more at: https://linktr.ee/communionwineco
Welcome to Cabernet and Pray, episode 18. Today we get to dive into a conversation with a longtime friend of mine named Nate Ross, and this one is cool because Nate and I's journey has overlapped in a variety of ways. We both grew up the son of a pastor, both ended up working for our dads in ministry, we both went on to become lead pastors and then we both stepped away from the lead pastor role and are now pursuing something else, and so literally I've walked with Nate through so many of these seasons together and he is just one of my favorite people, and I thought it would be so fun to get to unpack his journey with you today. A little bit about Nate. He was born in the Midwest, he lived in Vegas as a teenager and he settled down in the booming metropolis of Sellersburg, indiana, which is eight miles north of Louisville. He's married to Ruthie. They have three kids together. He had been in local church ministry for 17 years. He was a lead pastor in a church of over 6,000 people that was twice named one of the top 100 fastest growing churches in America, and then last year he stepped out of his lead pastor role to start an organization called Moments to Movements that is all about helping leaders navigate personal and organizational change.
Speaker 1:Nate is one of those guys. He is immensely likable, which is interesting, with a story he's going to tell, and it's just a guy that exudes love and when you're with him you're encouraged. You like him, you're just like I. Want more of this guy. He's got so much to offer and I hope you enjoy episode 18.
Speaker 1:All right, welcome to the podcast, nate Ross. Hey, so great to have you. This is fun. A lot of times I interview people I don't know already, so it's my first introduction, nate, and I go way back. This is a bro of mine, so I'm excited. This is more like just for me, like to catch up with a good friend of mine, and I'm recording it in case you say anything brilliant, oh boy, which you've been known to do. So I just view this as you and I having a glass of wine together and we're just going to record it and we'll let people listen in and hopefully you'll drop some of your, your truth bombs that you normally drop and uh, and we're all just going to write them down and then be better for it. How's that?
Speaker 2:sound. I'm game with it, man, and just a chance to catch up with you, that's. This is a mutually selfish thing, man to get to hang with you and catch up and chat with you. So this is great All right.
Speaker 1:That sound Nate means we need to talk about what we are drinking. I'll go first, I'll describe it and then we'll see what you do with this. Today I am drinking a 2019 Thorne Clark Shotfire Shiraz, which is that's a fun wine to say. This is what they call Syrah from Australia. For those of you who are like what's a Shiraz, it's a Syrah, but when you're in Australia, you got to do things a little fancy. So that's what I'm drinking today A delightful bold red. As I was tasting this, I got blackberry, plum, olive leather and vanilla bean.
Speaker 1:So I'm getting lots of fun things. Nate, what are you drinking today?
Speaker 2:So this is why I picked this one One. It's the only bottle of wine.
Speaker 1:I had in my house. So that's what that does, help help it. Help you select a little bit.
Speaker 2:But here's why this is this is our table wine, that if and primarily if, we're going to have a glass wine, it's because Ruthie's making Italian or something, but but this is our like table wine. It's Jay Lure. Am I saying that right? Jay and then Lure.
Speaker 1:Lure, see, yeah, so, but I I here's what I've learned with with wine names Nate, you just say it with a little bravado and confidence and people assume you know what you're talking about. And've had to pronounce some gnarly Italian names. I don't know what I'm talking about, but I just say it like it's cool. Then people are like oh wow, you really know how to say that. Then an expert is like that is not how you pronounce that, that's not the one.
Speaker 2:Actually, it's from Seven Oaks and I can pronounce that Hold on that, hold on that. So I'm going to, I'm going to stay there with the Seven Oaks. It is a cab 2020. And what I get notes of when someone's like well, why do you, why is this like your kind of table wine is there's a buttery finish, a buttery finish. So I don't know where that fits in the wine category and I that'll probably get me kicked out of your events that you have. You're like, sir, no refund, leave now, but uh, but this is it. Uh, a little bit easy. And then I think it's only like 15, 16 a bottle, something like that at the girth store. So it's an easy pickup, but literally, this is like our favorite if we're going to have a glass of wine at dinner.
Speaker 1:So this is why I feel like you are in the house right now.
Speaker 2:We're sitting at the table hanging. This is what I would pour you.
Speaker 1:Cheers. I like it. We'll go with that. So Nate and I got some good wines. We're ready to roll. Nate, you and I were in a mentor group together many years ago. This is where we got to develop our budding friendship. I have a lot of memories from those times. I'm curious what do you remember from those mentor groups? What stands out to you when you think back on those times?
Speaker 2:A couple of things. One, what an incredible gift to sit with those mentors both and we got to hang with mark scott and then dr walker as well both at the blessing ridge, one in colorado, one in florida. But to me, because I'm such a relational people, it's like if I can be with the right people, that makes everything everything. And so for me my biggest takeaway is like there was so much wisdom that was shared and there's so many times I mean even remembering how you guys would handle confrontation as a staff, like the whole open hand thing and hey, I'm about ready to say something tough, I need you to receive this. Like just learning incredible people was was the highlight for me, like I just it was beyond anything for me.
Speaker 1:So I think I remember, like the food we ate and the wine we drank and the cigars and you're holier than I am I remember the fun stuff that we did got to sit out in that patio and you know, just unpack life together and uh, the context of it was, uh, nate and I both, uh, grew up as preacher's kids and had worked on staff for our dads and you know, the kind of in the in the future was this idea that we were going to be lead pastors. So this is like early on in our ministry careers. And so there's this group of us. Originally it was all preacher's kids, as I recall, as the first group and you and.
Speaker 1:I into a second group that was just kind of more broad, uh, like future lead pastors, and uh, yeah, those were, those were fun times and and it was fun to in real time work through you know, uh, work through the issues we had, the hiccups, the challenges we were trying to figure out and then to obviously glean from incredible mentors but get to do it alongside people like you was super cool. So I was curious what you thought back on those days and I want to paint a little picture because I don't know how long ago that was. I don't know if you could guess. What year did you and I meet? Do you have any? Do you have any guests? I got nothing. I'm really bad. At time. I'd be like I don't know 10 years I am.
Speaker 2:I like I. I yeah, especially in ministry man, Sometimes ministry feels like dog years, so you're like that was just one year, no that felt like a hundred.
Speaker 1:So here's my question, because you, you know, you and I, uh, we're not the same people. We were in those circles and so I'd love to hear from you, as the question I like asking people on this Um, how has your faith changed? Let's just say, over the last 10 years, to pick the last decade, how would you describe your faith being different than it was 10 years ago?
Speaker 2:Man, yeah, I will. I will say probably the biggest thing that has changed is my starting point from my faith. I really wasn't aware of it. I'm so grateful for the family I've grown up in, I'm so grateful for the work ethic, but one of the biggest things that I've grown in is my awareness of how much the family I've grown up in has formed me, and even how much my where I start, just as a person has formed me, and how much in a lot of ways it um, I'm not blaming anybody, but how much I was actually, um, deformed by starting there.
Speaker 2:So what I mean is this like ministry for me or my faith would rise and fall on my passion. Ministry for me or my faith would rise and fall on my passion, effort, energy, zeal. Even this is something I say to you like part of my brokenness and like broken metaphor that I realized is even in like never even dated, like college. Really, it's not because I want to just like you're going to screw this whole thing up.
Speaker 2:I'm going to hold off here. He was like this is for your good. But I remember this was the brokenness of my metaphor. It was like if you work hard enough, everything will work out, and if things aren't working out, work harder.
Speaker 1:Do you think that's from like Christian culture?
Speaker 2:itself. That's what I'm like. I don't. I'm not like I don't have, I don't have anybody to blame or you know any of that. I just go. I've just become more aware of not even saying that I would believe that, but I would just live that Like this was, this was my own, I don't know self-righteousness maybe, or you know, like just my MO.
Speaker 2:My starting point was always that and part of it is because people reward drive or my charisma. You know like I suck at social media, so I'm not trying to, like you know, point all roads back to me or something like that, or just like promote my highlight reel. But there was always a thing of like that was the starting and gradually, what's just happened over and over again is there's been so many things that have not worked out, despite me working harder. And the Lord's like what are you going to do with that? Like, how does that fit in your faith paradigm of, well, you're working, you're working hard and it's not working out? Well, you're working hard and it's not working out. What's wrong with you? And that's really been the journey for me, even in this last season of stepping out of the lead pastor role.
Speaker 2:Don't regret it, not sad that I did it, but just realizing like there's certain gifting and callings and things and even assignments that the Lord gives, that it's like this doesn't rise in effort and energy and that's been like whew, okay, Like I've just had to and again I'm not, and that's why I don't want to, I don't want to miss if that has been facilitated. But I just know in my own soul that was core to me and part of that was just how you would just navigate, Probably also because I was five foot tall as a freshman in high school and you had to work harder than everybody else at everything. You were not five foot tall as a freshman, totally Really, oh yeah. And then people would call the house and I would answer and I'm like hello, and they'd like rachel, it's my sister. No, this is nathan like. It just is this whole like you know.
Speaker 2:So you're five people and you had a high voice I had high voice, late bloomer, april birthday, and so my best days of sports were in elementary. You know better than everybody then. And then sixth grade, it was just a disaster, and I don't believe in purgatory, but I'm pretty sure junior high could be it. For me it was just a disaster, but but I think that I mean, I think that was, I think that was the biggest formative time and I look back to stuff like that, even like you.
Speaker 2:Just you know those, those situations for me and and you I'm sure you've experienced this a little bit I don't want to speak for you, but it was there was a bunch of things that like energy and effort, especially when it came to faith. It did provide a lot of opportunities, it did create and I'm a big believer in give your best effort, give your. You know work hard man. You know, don't let you know, you won't labor in vain, but you know work. But but beneath it, faith wise. I really believed probably too much success was built on my effort rather than the faithfulness of Jesus and trust.
Speaker 1:I mean, you're making me think of, like all of the you know, the conferences we used to go to all the time and all of these you know established. Hey, I've arrived, I've made it, here's what I did. And I, you know, I've looked over my, my notes from like conferences I would attend over the years, and it's all these action steps like I gotta, I gotta be better at this, I gotta do better at this, and there definitely is that undercurrent of like, yeah, just just try a little bit harder and you'll be as successful as other people and god's gonna bless it yeah, yes, and then when, and then when it doesn't.
Speaker 2:I mean that was the most disorienting season for me, even as a lead pastor through COVID. I mean I've never been so disliked in my life and that was part of the thing. And I got to the core, to the root of that. I got one just phenomenal leadership coach that I've been journeying with for two years and actually doing some work with him now. But you know he made me write out the word dislike on a piece of paper we're talking, you know, challenging stuff here and put it in my pocket and walk around with it for an entire month. Whoa, and he was like I want you to like, like. It was almost like a conscious journal of like. When that sense of dislike was there. What's going on?
Speaker 1:going on when this like why that sounds so powerful to me, knowing you is that you're one of the most likable people I've ever met. And you are the guy and I've always envied this about you. You are the guy that everybody that I know knows you and you always will be like oh, you know, you know so and so. And I'd be like, nay, I don't know who that is. You, oh, you know so-and-so. And I'd be like Nate, I don't know who that is.
Speaker 1:You'd be like well you know my friend, so-and-so, I'd be like Nate I don't know who that is either and like you know everybody. And if I ever drop your name of like, oh yeah, I'll tell you Nate Ross, I mean, almost anybody would be like, oh, I love irony of you saying you're not good on social media. It's because you're so good in real life. You don't need social media. Social media is for the introverts who we lock up in social settings. But I can post right, you are the guy like, why would I need it? I'm just going to befriend every single person in that room, right? So that is so amazing that that was what you were instructed to do, like knowing how likable you are.
Speaker 2:And like, literally for me, I use social media to learn, not to connect. It's funny you say that and it's not because I would be anti-connecting. I just don't like I don't. I don't message anybody. I don't like I don't. It's, it's always this I'm learning. I mean that's why I watch your show, that's why I watch all the you know everything where I'm like it's my way to stay connected because that fuels my heart.
Speaker 2:But Dave Ryder is his name. He's just a great friend and now you know, leadership coach and going to be one of his associates is one of the things I do. And his big verse that he introduced me to was Proverbs 20, verse five, where it says the purposes of a person's heart are deep waters. But a person of understanding draws it out and his whole thing is like because I would, you know, you're just frantic. All these things are coming up, and it's not just covet or any of that type of stuff, it's just there's just seasons where and he's like nate's it's not that people need to learn how to get deep, he's like they just haven't had access to their deep waters yet and he's like and so that whole thing of dislike was me learning to get access to the deeper waters. And he's like this is what continues to be. Cause, really, what I would find is this Uh, so I was in a cohort with him as him and then another, uh, christian psychologist. So I was in a cohort with him as him and then another Christian psychologist, so it was like taking organizational leadership with Christian psychology and bringing them together.
Speaker 2:And her name's Jules Wilheim, and she would just call me out. She was like you're coping right now. And I'm like, no, I'm connecting right now with people. She's like if she would just watch it in a group setting, I would say something and then someone would push back and I'm like, well, you know, you're, you're, you're probably right, you know, I see where you're coming from, jeremy.
Speaker 2:She, you know she'd be like why are you coping? I'm like I'm not coping, I'm you know cause. I'm like I'm not smoking cigarettes right now, I'm fine, right, you know. I'm like you know, you know like that's the, that's the only way people cope with stress or something. And, um, she's like no, you, you, you cope way more than you realize. And and you, just relationally, just kind of, hey, as long as everybody likes you, and you're good, I'm good, we're all good and then she's like but you're not good. You're not good, like things are in you and that's not good and you're just making sure. And again, all of this has been this you know, look at, look at the questions you're asking, jeremy, all of this gets to the deeper things of the faith journey and what's getting revealed and what we've been living with but we, like, we're not even aware of you know, or even given access, the ability to access it. You know and go. Yeah, that's not good.
Speaker 2:That's not healthy in me, that's not of the Lord, it's just of the flesh or whatever. But yeah, so it's been a wild road.
Speaker 1:Why do you think more people are reluctant to do that work themselves? You and I have had similar journeys in a sense where, you know, when I stepped away from mainly pastor, I felt this strong sense of I should not go, run back into another role somewhere else. You know, like that would, that would not give me the space to like, sit in that and ponder it and learn from it and grow from it. And you know, I think a lot of times people go from like one wound to another wound, right, and we never spend the time to figure out what am I feeling right now? What is it revealing to me? What am I learning about God?
Speaker 1:Well, you know all of this, uh, because it's not, it's not pleasant, you know, um, I would say sitting in that space was, was not at all pleasant, but that's, that was the catalyst for me to become a different version of myself and and you know I'm biased I would say a better version. I like this version of myself better, um, but it took. It took sitting in that space, what, what, what do you think? Like someone's listening to this, watching this, they're like, oh cool, I want to have that. And maybe they're recognizing their own need for that of like. I kind of relate to this, like maybe.
Speaker 2:I'm coping. What do you think maybe can help people do that work themselves? Well, I think one. Some folks long for it but, like even that verse said, it's like there's a person of understanding that helps draw it out. And I think part of it is some folks are like I'm open for it. They just they just don't have somebody, a guide yet, or a pastor in their life or someone of wisdom who can help draw that out. And so proximity to that, and so the desires there they just don't have. You know, they're like dude, I listened to so many podcasts. I'm like that's a one-way street, like right now they're just listening to us. We're not facilitating a conversation and sitting and listening, and so proximity to healthy people is one.
Speaker 2:Another one is I think we're afraid of what we'll find. I think people are gonna have to go back to childhood stuff. Literally, I mean this is full transparency. You ready, like I didn't plan this, but we're just going to go stuff. Literally, I mean this is full transparency. You ready, like I didn't plan this, but we're just going to go there, so that that counselor, jules Wilhelm, she really went to it. She's like I want you to think the earliest time in your life that you were afraid of people's dislike. And I was like, okay, she's like, close your eyes. This is over Zoom, by the way, not even in person, okay. And I closed my eyes and I'm just thinking and I went back to and the thing is, I joke about this story. This is what's so funny. I'll tell the story to people. And I've laughed for years about the story, but I had no idea what was going on in it.
Speaker 2:And I was. I was brand new. I just moved from Louisville, kentucky, to Bloomington, indiana, God's country and and southern indiana. And uh was I was nine and was still wetting the bed. Super embarrassing, right. And so I would always go and play at friends homes, but hey, we have something to do early in the morning, so I'd have to always leave. Leave at 11, right.
Speaker 2:And this one time it was all the baseball players from our team that were staying over there and I was like I want to do it. My mom's like I don't know, you know if you wet the bed there, and so she lined my sleeping bag with plastic. I don't, I don't know what that was gonna do for it, but he was gonna catch it or whatever. My mom is the sweetest, so she lines it. I stay up to like four in the morning thinking like I won't fall asleep, wake up, a security and I had went to bed.
Speaker 2:All the baseball players are asleep in the basement. So I go upstairs, I grab a Mountain Dew and I crack the Mountain Dew and pour it all over myself and I wake a buddy up and I'm like, oh man, man, I, oh, I poured Mountain Dew. I was trying to take a drink. I poured Mountain Dew all over myself. He goes oh man, it looks like you wet the bed. I go I know, oh man, you know to like just to cover the mess. And she's like one that's very fast thinking very good, and she goes.
Speaker 1:So let's now invite you into that basement with you.
Speaker 2:What does he have to say to nine-year-old Nate who's afraid of the entire baseball team rejecting him In a new town? Very few friends, you're just trying to friends, you're just trying to. You're just trying to dude, I just start weeping. Man, she's like, ask him, ask him what he wants to say to you right now. Oh my Lord, what do you want to say to me? Right, and like I'm just weak man and I just I hear him. He's like I'm not embarrassed of you, I'm not abandon you and I'm ready to move you.
Speaker 2:Whoa, like I mean even just now and I had, like I've told that story as a joke, it's funny I had no idea. Like how that moment, like we talk about those things we're not aware of, like how much there's no church hurt there. You know what I'm saying. Like there's no Christian culture hurt there. You know what I'm saying. Like there's no Christian culture hurt me. These are like just childhood things that we walk through, leave a mark on us that have made us afraid that have, and not that everybody needs to go to their deepest, darkest thing.
Speaker 2:But she knew, like if you're really going to deal with this, you got to go to these experiences, man, and you got to have God speak into you, Like not just some cliche scriptures, like what does he want to tell you? And like I can recite those clear as day, not because I'm articulate or whatever that was. The heart of God is like, dude, I was with you there. And like, even in the future, like I'm not, I'm not embarrassed of you, man, Like I'm not.
Speaker 2:I'm not embarrassed of you, man, like I didn't abandon you in that basement and I'm ready to move you and I just go. I think for a lot of us, we don't want to go there, we don't want to make, we want to, and like I didn't. And that's the thing is, some of us we know those instant, like those moments that did create that thing, like I wasn't even aware. She just asked a question. Think as far back as you possibly could like that was it? Think as far back as you possibly could about the potential of not being liked or being disliked. And it was just getting to that and I just I'm just learning.
Speaker 2:That stuff hangs with us, it fuels us, it teaches us how to navigate those tough things and think those are some of it. It's like people of wisdom around us. And then the the fear of being vulnerable. I think that just the last one is just a loss of control. Yeah, because if you get faced with it, you may lose control, and so let's just not deal with it because it could control, like a loss of control can be costly.
Speaker 1:Well, no one wants to feel like that nine year old again.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, no man you know, and so, no, that was in the past. I dealt with that, I survived it, I navigated it. I don't need to revisit it and it's like, well, it's visiting you every day, it's it's shaping your decision, it's keeping you from moving into a rich relationship or wholeness or all sorts of things. But I think those are the top three things, at least for me, that I've found.
Speaker 1:What's your relationship with Mountain Dew these days?
Speaker 2:Oh no, I did take a drink.
Speaker 1:I didn't know if it was a trigger for you or like too soon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you see it and you're like, oh no, I did take a drink of the Mountain Dew Zero the other day. I'm like man, they're honing it in for us 40-year-olds. They're really getting it.
Speaker 1:Dude, you're so funny I'm able to say wait, my, my guilty pleasure, like we go to taco bell or something, because you know we don't have time to grab something. Dude. They've got all sorts of mountain dew zero flavors there and I'm like they have captured my childhood and lessen the sugar and I understand it's fake sugar, whatever. It's not good for you. I'm not saying I drink it every. I'm just saying when you need your Chalupa and you need to wash it down with something, that that Mountain Dew Zero is pretty tasty.
Speaker 2:At 11 o'clock at night as well, I mean it's always later it. Uh, it is man, I and I just speaking to that like I find what's funny is watching marketing. You know three kids now, and ruthie and I do, and it's like everything is being marketed to you and I now and I just crack up, man, I'm like we're now the ones who are paying for everything for our kids and so they're like we're gonna appeal to these guys in their 40s because they're gonna buy this crap I love it.
Speaker 1:It's all the super bowl commercial, the Super Bowl halftime. You know we're finally the target audience. We're like these have finally gotten good. It's like no, they're just, we've reached the age, we're old enough now. Like, oh, these are our people. We like that.
Speaker 1:I love it. Ok, so you and I have a lot in common. We grew up preacher's kids. Both have that Worked for our dads in ministry. Both had that. Both became lead pastors, both have that. Both left the role of lead pastors. So I mean, literally there's a lot of connecting points there you go oh, you guys have a lot in common. I mean for us to follow this trajectory. That's why I was like this will be a fun conversation.
Speaker 1:I have noticed and I'm curious your take on this, because this is something I'm working through, so I need you to enlighten me on this. You've probably figured this out. I look at how my kids are growing up and it is so different than how I grew up. I grew up with my dad, you know, preaching every week. I was at church multiple times a week. My kids are not growing up with that now, you know. And so we've we've had a different experience and I just can't help but like, mentally, compare that.
Speaker 1:And then you ask the question. You mentally like, hey, am I, am I giving them an adequate experience? Is this different? It's not. You know, like I grew up knowing the Bible like inside and out, because that's that was a culture I was raised in and you know we had Bible drills and memorized verses and just all of it. My kids don't know the Bible Like I knew it at their age. You know what I mean. And so I'm looking at that and I'm like, no, I don't think that's the end. All goal is to, like, have the Bible memorized, because there's a lot of awful people who are very proficient in the Bible. But you know, it does kind of cause me pause because you have such a similarity in your own journey with your kids. Do you ever have that thought Like do you look at your kids and how are you navigating? How different they're growing up than the way you grew up?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I think about it all the time. I'm like I remember I memorized all the books of the Bible, second grade.
Speaker 1:This morning, I don't have a vivid memory, but I probably did.
Speaker 2:You know, I remember, you know, but that was part of the Sunday night church thing. And you know, like what you said, sunday morning, sunday night, wednesday night, that was the routine. And even this morning I got up Today's, our first day back from spring break and you know, I got up, read, had my quiet time and it was 1 Corinthians 15. And go down, I wake up my daughter for sixth grade, and I'm like, hey, remember, you know, cause, jesus, we don't labor in vain today. And you know, just trying to encourage her. And you know we go back to work and different stuff. And uh, she's leaving the house and uh, she's like, yeah, dad shared a scripture with me today. And Ruthie goes, oh, yeah, what was it, I don't know Just walked out and I'm like awesome. And you just like, I'm like I was waking her up.
Speaker 2:So I'm like she's, you know, like, yeah, that was but but it is I, you know, I I do feel it. Um, two things. I do feel the I'm going to have to pastor them differently, uh, in the way of like meeting them, walking with them, and it really is. What's kind of fun is the hope is, at least for me, is it's really a return to that deuteronomy 6 model, when you lie down, when you wake up, when you go to work, when you're doing that like it is this finding ways to bring scripture into this. Ruthie and I read a daily devotional thing together just to encourage each other, have stuff to talk about and and we're trying to share that a little bit with Lily as well and reading stuff together.
Speaker 2:And I'm finding this is like it's happened to ramp up compared to that idea of just a couple times a week at church, because it was ingrained. It's like we are gonna have to forge a new path of family rhythms that on the way to travel ball after travel ball you know lily, she doesn't do travel cheer her school team. They just won state for like their third time in a row and so it's like the cheer team for this, uh, for the school is enough like competitive enough. You know where it's like we're not into all the travel stuff, but I'm going, people are gonna have are going to have to go dude, like you're going to have to figure out. You're not going to wait for the idea that you're just going to get your kid to church and it's all going to change. It's like you're going to have to change the entire rhythm of how much you were talking about this, the moments that you create what you're putting. You know your time to that has changed drastically.
Speaker 2:And then the thing is for us I'm not here to just raise the banner, but it's like she's the only kid on the cheer team who doesn't have a phone. You know, we did. There is anxiety that's coming from not having a phone. Now that you got to like, think about, and so our happy medium is we got her an Apple watch, you know, so we can lock it down. It gives the look that she does have a phone, but she doesn't, and at the same time she can still text with the right friends. You know all that other stuff and so it.
Speaker 2:But there's a whole thing of like. We're going to have to create this discipleship thing and then we are going to have to be real intentional with the digital engagement and you're watching this everywhere. I mean, even non Christian folks are like, yeah, we got a problem. Like we got, we got a we're, we got a massive problem. So I think that's where, for me, I'm just stepping into it. I don't. And then you know this all cause you got five kids, right it's, you know they're not the same. None of them like how you, how you're gonna, just how you're gonna walk and talk with and what they, uh, you know, my older two are like super loving, and zeke is a loving kid but like hey, buddy, come give me a hug and he'll like just lean into me.
Speaker 2:Like he's like I don't know about this whole hugging thing and I'm like, buddy, you know just new styles, but I am, I'm learning like this is gonna have to be talked about way more than what I'm accustomed to, because you were getting that message three times a week growing up and now now it's like we're going to have to cultivate the message all the time.
Speaker 1:So you know, even the parents, who you know are watching this, listening to this, who are not in ministry roles. This is one of the top questions I get asked, like when we do a community event and we don't open up the Q and a, almost every time there's a parenting question of what the heck, how do we, how do we raise our kids? You know where a lot, for a lot of people too, the evangelical church as it is is no longer an option, you know, for a lot of reasons, and so they're going, hey, we don't feel like that's going to do it. And then they're trying to figure out, like, how do we, how do we do that? And it's very tricky. One thing I'll just say and this is going to sound like a sponsor is speaking in here I don't get paid for this. I should, and if they're listening I would. I'm not above it, but have you heard of the Gab phone?
Speaker 2:G-A-B-B. No, I'm going to drop this for you, nate, come on, I'm writing it down.
Speaker 1:And Gab, if you're listening as well, call me. But Gab Phones are I think they're actually a Mormon company, but they are basically. They look like smartphones but they're not. So they can do all the basic phone features but they lock them down as far as what they're able to do and then very heavy on the way the parent. You know restrictions can work and so what we decided? So our older three each have a gab phone. They are 12, 13, and 15. Because that way if they're out an event or whatever, they want to call, they want to text, they can do all that. They have the phone right. But it does no social media, it does none of the crazy stuff. Limits, even video chats doesn't do that.
Speaker 1:So for us that's been a very good happy medium. Now, again, if we said to any of them, hey, would you want an iPhone, all of them would be like, yeah, dump this stupid Gap phone, right. But we've kind of found a good happy medium where this allows you to still connect. But we're keeping you from that and my goal is just like I'm going to keep you with a gap phone as long as I physically can. And you know my 15 year old obviously our oldest. He's the one that pushes it the hardest and I'm like look, the rest of your life you're going to be inundated with all this stuff. I'm like, just be a kid right now, and I'm not trying to stop you from experiencing the world. You're going to have the rest of your life to deal with that. I'm like, but you're 15 right now. Just enjoy being 15. You'll never go back to this. Maybe check it out.
Speaker 2:It sounds like you've got to do it with your Apple Watch. I'm sitting here I'm trying to find it. I took a picture of this and I'll probably miss it, but there's Rainn Wilson. Just, it's amazing that you're you're quoting that and I must I must have lost it, but Rainn Wilson just promoted a book as his final social media. I think it's the Anxious Child or the Anxious Generation, and everything that you just brought up. It's like this. Is it like? These are things, christian, non-christian kids, and everybody's trying to figure this out. I hadn't heard about that, but I I believe it and it was because what you were saying about your kid being 15, they were talking about like no iphone before 16. That's what I was looking at like was was one of their things. And then they were talking about like no social media until, like, college, because they're like you, you are not ready for, yeah, mentally, emotionally. This isn't about we're trying to keep all the fun from you. It's like devastating implications, so well going to school.
Speaker 1:You know our kids go to public school. That's hard enough. You know all the all the drama, the dynamics of that and it's like, look, just be present, be that, and yeah, we'll, we'll add stuff on as you get older and it's more complicated. Yeah, that's. It's been an interesting theme of a number of guests of the show. A number of guests have been full time lead pastors and are no longer in that role, and so I just have found that these conversations are often very intriguing for a variety of reasons.
Speaker 1:You had a phrase I can't remember where I saw this, but I saw that you wrote this somewhere and again I wrote down. You said I grew up in a ministry home, but ministry is not my home. And I was like, whoa, that's good, it's catchy, it's good, you can tell. A preacher came up with that I grew up in a ministry home, but ministry is not my home. Also hits me, because it's my story as well. Talk a little bit about why. Why did you step away from that role? Why did you not go back into that role somewhere else?
Speaker 2:Yeah, even even just explaining that that was. I was down at the blessing ranch. When I'd stepped out, the elders were kind and gave me a provision. They go hey, man, figure this next season out, let us create some funds for you to be able to do that. And that was one of the things I wanted to encourage Ruthie and I go do just to dream and go plan Cause it. It'd be easy if it was one thing where I'm like, you know, like if Zondervan or whoever came to you, it was like Jeremy, here's a five book deal and we want you to do this, this and this. And you're like I need to step out of my lead pastor role. You know like, not even that that would be so easy, but the transition would be a little bit easier, right, but when the Lord calls you out of some things and it's to the unknown, you know it's like, oh and. And I got down there and Charity at the Blessing Ranch asked she's like how do you think this will impact your family, this change? And it just got me thinking.
Speaker 2:And I was sitting at a coffee shop one morning doing the prep work before going into a session. Literally last Friday was the one year anniversary and I feel like the Lord gave me that phrase. I was sitting in the coffee shop and I was just thinking about the family. And I'm thinking about you know, because there's a sense of failure that's associated with this, like for a lot of my dad's ministry. For 47 years, all 41 years of my life has always been in the church. I went to bible college for this. Everything I've done is for this, and now I'm not going to do this. Thing I've done is for this, and now I'm not going to do this. So, and then back to if you work hard enough, so you're lazy or whatever. It is what's wrong with you?
Speaker 2:What's wrong with you? Why couldn't you give a better effort? Why couldn't you preach a better sermon, whatever, and you just sit there. You know, I remember just going like that whole line is like I'm up in a ministry home. I just kept writing in the journal and I felt like the Lord was like but ministry is not your home. I am your home.
Speaker 2:There's a calling to it, there's a vocation to that there's a stewarding of the gifts that you have. But that is not your home. And I'm not mad at the church. I'm not anti-mega church, I'm not anti-lead pastor. I don't regret being a lead pastor. Church is in a great spot, you know. It's like we're like that's where everyone's kind of like what are you doing, man? Like you're just coming into this, you know, but what you know we don't get. I don't normally get to spend this much time with folks as much as I want to, but it was a three-year wrestle for me before I stepped out.
Speaker 1:You know, because even when I left, church.
Speaker 2:I was at Illinois for youth ministry. There was nothing wrong. I just realized I'm more generalist than special, and so I stepped out, didn't have a job. Then my buddy actually emailed me the job description at my home church, and it was for an associate of involvement it. It wasn't even the involvement minister, it was just the associate. But they were like you're not in charge and you don't like there's no preaching with this, and I'm like I don't care, it's with people all the time, helping them take their next step, creating opportunity. I'm like, yes, so like that was why I even came home. Everybody's like well, no, you came here to take over for your dad. I'm like I came here to be the involvement associate, like I didn't. There was no plan, um, and then you know kind of roles just kept moving into it. The biggest thing for me, though, was and you'll you know you talk about you and I being different that's the, that's part of the gifting is. It's like you don't need to be somebody else, you need to live in the gifting that the, that God has created you.
Speaker 2:I love John Thompson in his book Convergence. He's a pastor up in Canada I've gotten to know the last year and really amazing thinker. He said Jesus lived by this kind of like these three frameworks. I thought it was great. His spiritual gifts, spiritual disciplines and then obeying the promptings of the Holy Spirit was how he worked His whole book on the convergence. We want a movement of the Spirit, but he's like we got to understand how the Spirit works.
Speaker 2:And the hardest part for me for the three years I was the lead pastor for five but the majority of my time was spent writing sermons, which I'm not against sermon writing, but that was probably maybe my third best gifting but demanded my most time and how wired. If I had time I'd show you my culture index or basically it would be like I was on my way to burnout, like I was burning twice as much fuel as I had in my tank. I was not getting to do how things. I was wired and the elders were fine.
Speaker 2:I was bringing in guys like Mike Rowe and Ephraim Smith Because I'm like I can't spend this much time by myself preparing a sermon. Preaching is a monologue, not a dialogue, and then when you have to recover, you recover by yourself. And some people are like I know that sounds amazing and I'm like that's why I got into preaching and I just went how I'm wired and even what the Lord created and called me into that was my biggest thing is I'm going. For a couple of years I'm like, ok, I got to, I've got to change this or I got to tweak this, and really what was happening was there was some gifting where I'm like I'm not getting to to do what I'm really best at, and I'm okay to go again I don't think there needs to know.
Speaker 2:I think there was two things too. One I need to continue to change how it was structured. Daryl land and jasper indiana he's the lead pastor planted the church multi-site. He continued to change how it was structured. Darrell Land in Jasper Indiana, he's the lead pastor, planted the church multi-site awesome. And he won't preach more than 22 times a year and even when they were 300, he hired a teaching pastor because he's like, if you love the environment we're creating and how relational we are.
Speaker 1:Don't make me preach all day.
Speaker 2:Don't make me preach all day. He's like and he coaches the freshman basketball team at Jasper high school and it's like here's how I'm wired, and the church is flourishing and he pre and he's like and I got a teaching pastor who's better than me. He's like I don't care and it's just this, and so you have that. But then ultimately, I was going to need to continue to tweak that overall. But really my biggest thing is I love and I told Ryder this my leadership. He's like just just say it, dude, don't worry about what the next season is or what the business is, or you know, I wouldn't start. You know Cabernet and Prey. I start bourbon and Bible Now. I wouldn't start, you know Cabernet and Pray after Bourbon and Bible yes, we need this, mr Podcast.
Speaker 2:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:You know like I'm in the land of bourbon and Bible. That is fantastic.
Speaker 2:But you know, but he goes just say it. And it felt like failure when I said it, but this was the epitome of it, of why I stepped out. I said I would rather help a leader with their thing than lead my thing, and it, it, just saying it just felt like you know just oh, I'm not a leader. You know just oh, I'm not a leader. This is failure. I didn't work hard enough, it's not working out and he just goes.
Speaker 1:well, that's what I do.
Speaker 2:I'm like Dave. I don't mean to insult you man, I didn't mean it that way. He's like no, you know, I'm like Dave. I don't mean to insult you man, I didn't mean it that way. He's like no, you know, he was high up in Motorola and Zurich Insurance hired him to redo HR for North America. I mean, like all this incredible stuff that he's like I love. I'm like I have to pay more attention to that framework of like. I've got to stay way more in my spiritual gifts and I still speak right.
Speaker 2:I preached for a buddy in Illinois last month, preaching for a friend in Chicago next month, you know a couple other times this summer. It's like I do it and I do enjoy it and I preach in their series like you, like you come along right. It's like you bless them. You have a gift, you use it. So it's not on the shelf, but it's like this idea that we like the only way you're going to preach is you have to be the lead pastor. There's no preaching. It's like I think that is the misnomer that we're putting on folks. It was really the journey, but it was a three-year journey just with myself of going figure this out.
Speaker 2:What's wrong? Change this, do that. No, this isn't the right fit for me.
Speaker 1:What was your favorite part and your least favorite part about the role of lead pastor for you, oh, man For me.
Speaker 2:Oh, dude, and this is so, so funny. I love the details of creating environments, and I'm not talking just church service stuff. But we would do night of worship Because Southern Indiana, everybody came home at Thanksgiving. Instead, of, like in a big metropolis, everybody goes home, right. So everybody came home from college and we would do nights of worship the night before Thanksgiving and then have the church fast that day. So everybody's cooking food but you're not eating, right.
Speaker 2:And then it was like this we celebrated all that God did that year. And then this was like this we celebrated all that God did that year. And then this was like my favorite thing there was one guy, john Baines, who got up at 5 am and made breakfast for all the volunteers on Sunday morning for service in the back Eggs, everything, and we would just recognize like lead servants in the church and surprise them. And then we would make like like it wasn't even expensive, but like we would brag on them. And I made him an apron that said John the Baptist Baines on it and and and the whole thing was like john, you, you, you prepared the way for everybody. You were here before.
Speaker 2:Everybody like and like him then the next week and he's in there making eggs, his apron on, you know, and it was just this whole thing of like and the place just we'd call him up on stage and just thank him place just eruptspts. You know, 95% of the room doesn't even know them, it doesn't matter, and just like this creating these things and bringing them together and the idea and the celebration of folks, it just like to get to do that stuff, was for me like I just love that man of bringing that together.
Speaker 2:And really the hardest part for me was um, and you know this, it doesn't, it doesn't matter what side of the church you're leading, the, the weight and the loneliness, uh, and, and not even just loneliness, I think it's, uh, it's the cost of leadership, that uh, cause you're not, you're not going to make people happy, uh, stuff's always coming at you and um, it's, it was just, it was just hard. I mean just the amount of time that you're by yourself. You know, cause I know you had, like you, student team, you had other roles and different stuff, and it's like when you move in that lead, like you, you, you keep moving away from people. And for me I'm like, oh, like, that's my lifeline. You know, collaboration, it's not really my little name, it is like that's like, that's my lifeline's, who I am. And when there's stuff you just delegate, you don't begin to do this stuff, it's like that's just hard for me. And then that's a lot of it. You know, you're just, you're away from things. That's tough for me, for me.
Speaker 1:All right, let's come up for air. Let's have enough to take a drink. I'm going to, I'm going to ask you a drinking question and then we'll do a rapid fire round and you get to unload some rapid fire questions.
Speaker 1:So I love hearing this from people who have been drinking for years. I'm hoping you have a good one. What if I were to say what's the best glass of wine you've ever had? Is there something that comes to mind? Is it that one bottle, or that one time, or that one group, or whatever? Is there a memory that comes to mind? Can you describe for us what was it?
Speaker 2:Yeah of mine. Can you describe for us what? What was it? Yeah, so, uh, there's a wine called carter wines and mark carter and his wife they actually run at their winery. Uh, it's just north east of Vista, that San Diego area called Carter Wines. They have like 900-point wines, like they are ballers in the game. Well, he's doing bourbon now too, called Old Carter Bourbon. He lives here in Louisville, so he's doing a wine event. My buddy gets a couple tickets for Ruthie and I, and what was funny is he's there early walking around and people are trying the wines and we're sipping them. He's talking to Ruthie and she's like so who are you?
Speaker 1:He's like Ruthie, no, no.
Speaker 2:He's like well, I'm Mark Carter with Carter Wines. Like wow, mark, we had no idea who this guy is. Like he's this genius winemaker and but super kind. And then we tried his wine. We're like, oh my gosh. So part of it was it was the whole dinner and then just watching us put our foot in our mouth. But so there's a little bit like, yes, it's a great glass of wine, but just the whole story of meeting Mark Carter and not knowing who he is.
Speaker 1:I love when he just like, just holds up a bottle to you and just like, just slowly points to the label. Like that, that's me, when your name is on the bottle. That's a pretty big flex. Just be like yeah, I'm that guy, the one that's on the bottle, that's a great story. Okay, rapid fire round. What do you see as the main issues facing Christianity in America today? Who is Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who is Jesus? And what does obedience to the Holy Spirit really look like?
Speaker 1:That's good. That was very succinct and bam. Okay, I like it. Let's focus on the church. What do you see as the main issues facing the church in America today?
Speaker 2:How do we actually make a disciple that's more than just program-based?
Speaker 1:You mean, we can actually make people look more like Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Right, you know it's like how do, how do we live that? How do we, how do we? Embody that you know, beyond a I'm not anti-weekend gathering, but just how, how to? How does that not get all the attention from us? And and even right expectation, timeline expectation, you know, uh, philosophy of how we're equipping a walk alongside folks.
Speaker 1:But that's good. Yeah, what would you say is something blowing your mind right now.
Speaker 2:God is at work, even when I'm trying to figure out the work he has for me. Like I know I think you said it before we came on there where you're like I'm finding some stuff, we're still dialing it in a little bit. I'm like I have a website. I have a website, I'm doing things.
Speaker 1:Look at me I got a website. I'm doing things. Look at me.
Speaker 2:I got a website, I got a business card, no, but you know, it's like You're seeing it, you're feeling it. It's not as you know, there's stuff that's happening, but you're like, and he's and like just blowing my mind. I'm like you really. You really do have this figured out, lord. You're just letting me figure this out and process and, like what you said, sometimes like sitting in that that window of don't just jump back into it, cause sometimes it can be like bad relationships Okay, as a lead pastor, now just go be another lead pastor. And it's like whoa, hang on, get a rebound, get a rebound church.
Speaker 1:You're my rebound church.
Speaker 2:I was going through some things and you look pretty good. I mean dangerous.
Speaker 1:I think we need to make communion shirts. Let's talk about is this church your rebound church?
Speaker 2:first time long time member rebound church.
Speaker 1:Please check the box I'll be honest, I had, I had a couple rebound churches. I didn't go on staff there, but, you know, after, after things went south for us, it was, uh, it was like all right, let's, let's try to find this again. And, you know, had a couple, it's like a bad breakup. You know you're a little little on edge and, uh, what's interesting is you talk about. You know, I certainly relate with your sense of like I got a website, but I don't really know, you know, what I'm doing, necessarily, um, I think one of the hard parts in my journey and I suspect you, you would relate when I was in the lead pastor role, things made sense, like my life made sense, my job was meaningful, my, you know, uh, when you would ask someone, asked what you do, and you explain it like, wow, that's noble. You know, that is cool and it felt cool, it felt there was a satisfaction to the job. When I left that, you know, it's like I don't regret it either and I don't want to go back either. Um, but I do miss that feeling, you know, and and, uh, I wonder, is that feeling more of a drug than anything else, of like that numbs you? You know like, oh, look how great this is.
Speaker 1:And so there's many nights I lay in bed I'm like what am I doing? Like what, what is this? What is you know and you know, these days, trying to explain to someone what I do, it's, it's confusing and half the time I'm like, depending what context I mean, I don't even know how to explain. And you know, a lot of times they look at me like what is it it you do? And you're all into weird stuff and you know it's like yeah, I don't know how to explain it. So it's interesting that that's your thing. You're learning it and I suspect you and I, till we die, may not have that Like we once had it.
Speaker 2:I think you're right. I mean, I'm only, I'm literally just a year into it, I'm a couple ahead of you, and you know you can. You can speak to this Like I would tell people they, if they would come on staff, I'd be like, hey, there's a two-year culture curve here and it's not because our culture was so, oh, it's better than your culture. I go. I think if you go on staff at a church, or even if you go to work anywhere, it's like I think I don't care what size it is. It's like I think there's just a two-year learning, like, okay, we navigated this year. Now what like? What did we not do? What did we? You know even, how did things end when you left? You know all that, all that type of thing, so you'll be able to give me wisdom on that.
Speaker 2:But it is, and there's like a bunch of things I'm excited about. I mean I checked. What is it? April 8th or whatever it is. You got your next you know, uh, tasting night. It's like, dude, those are so rad, man, like you get all these things. It's it's you're not doing nothing, you know, you're just going. But to your point, it's like, but it's not as succinct, it's just not as rigid, it's not as um you. It's just not as rigid, it's not as consistent with any of that stuff. And that does it challenges. It is challenging to your identity and what you've done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's a problem you're trying to solve?
Speaker 2:Really, for me, this is the sentiment of moments to movements that actually came to me as the associate, but it's 10 years ago. But the idea of the organization is to help leaders navigate personal and organizational change and really from the frameworks of navigating our deep waters, both personally. But then how do we create an organization that navigates the deep waters and profit all this stuff? It's like we got to pay attention to that stuff, but there's so much more to it, um, and so that's what. That's the big problem that I'm you know, I'm loving it, man like working with churches that have momentum. I'm working with churches that don't. Uh, coaching a guy that's an orthodontist that you know, it's like great friend, ministry, hearted, and he's just like. He's just like I want my life to be an impact and it's like man, let's just dream about that and so. But again, all those frameworks are going to apply. Everything's just in a customized setting and that really, that's as succinct as I can get. It is just helping people navigate personal and organizational change.
Speaker 1:That's good. What's something you're excited about right now?
Speaker 2:Right now. Ah, this is so rad, so two things. So, dave Ryder, who I, my leadership coach, we've come together to do some things, so we're doing we two things. Uh, so, dave Ryder, who I, my leadership coach, we we've come together to do some things, so we're doing, uh, we just started, but there's uh six, maybe seven business guys here in Louisville that we're meeting with once a month to do this very thing. So it's a cohort and we just started Uh it's my first time to do it in the Louisville area and like I don't know man, like I know all the guys, they don't know each other. So it's kind of like your wedding day, when you get all your friends together and you know them, but they don't know each other and you're just watching them like sharpen each other and grow and uh, just the the fun of that and then uh we're gonna do another cohort.
Speaker 2:We're really excited about Some churches across the country where it'll be the lead pastor, the chairman of the elders and the executive pastor together in a cohort and going teaching the frameworks, watching through this, and then they'll get to help shape each other, the churches, and then we'll help them, basically help them create their own organizational playbook based on this. So that way it's, it's like all right, we want to see deep waters come within the church. It takes a whole lot more time, intentionality, customization and it's like here we go. So it is. It's one of those things that you're pumped about and you're like someone's like, well, go, so it is.
Speaker 2:it's one of those things that you're pumped about and you're like someone's like well, give me a packet on that. Give me a moment. I got a website. I got a website, man.
Speaker 1:Love it. Oh, that's great, all right, last question Is there anything you'd like to add that I have not asked you about?
Speaker 2:Oh man, no, dude, you got me talking about my nine-year-old self wet in the bed. Dude, if we're going to go there, we went there we went there. This hour and seven minutes I will think of you every time I drink Mountain Dew.
Speaker 1:Now I think. Just start giggling my friend Nate.
Speaker 2:Pour a little out. For me, is that the one you drive through Put a little Baja blast on the pavement?
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:No man this has been fun.
Speaker 1:Well, nate. I appreciate your time. Dude, this has been a blast to catch up with. You Love what you're doing, so if people want to check it out, you have a website momentstomovementscom. Right, that's the best place to send them.
Speaker 2:You can find me at nateross44, but momentstomovementscom is the easiest. And yeah, no, if anybody would love to chat or talk more, let me know. But yeah, no, I'm just honored to be on the show and grateful to be your friend, man.
Speaker 1:Well, the website looks good. Dude it's a slow website.
Speaker 1:When you built it you said it to me I was like, ooh, you look legit now. Uh, in all seriousness, dude, I you are one of the guys I just, I think the world of you I have, uh, watched you live out your faith. Uh, for however long we've been friends we, we didn't never figure that out, but uh, for a decade and uh and cool to see how our lives and our stories have overlapped in so many of these areas. And then getting to walk this with you and again, I hope people who have been in this episode realize we both have stepped away from the ministry, but there's no bitterness there, there's no animosity, there's no hatred. There's a sense of like hey, there's something new and this is good, and I think that's. We need to be able to demonstrate more of that, and so that's why I love people hearing your story and seeing how you're doing.
Speaker 1:And if you need, if you need a coach, you need someone to help you level up. Nate is an incredible guy, maybe not your social media, he may not be able to dial in, but he will help you figure out the nine-year-old version of you and he'll take you there. So check out moments to movementcom. Thank you guys for dialing in to another episode, whether you watched or listened, we're so grateful for you. We will see you guys all for the next episode of Cabernet and pray. Thanks, friends.